Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEASE!!!

[BigOscar]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

2 man midfields aren't impossible, but 2 man midfields involving Yaya are clearly a problem(much like putting Pirlo or Xavi in a midfield 2, you just wouldn't do it). Same goes for two strikers. If you play two strikers, they both have to work back, press all over the pitch and generally work their socks off to make up for you being a man short in the middle, which ours don't do.

We don't have the right players to play this way and it's becoming increasingly obvious (in Europe it's always been obvious). We need to either switch to a formation that our players are suited to (like we did when Jovetic came on), or change personel to fit the system. (which would require an overhaul)

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

But we try and play a front-foot, possession based game at around 55-70% with the 442. Neither Heynckes' Bayern nor Atléti (nor Dortmund even though they olay a slightly different formation, more of a 4312) play like that in their 442s.

Plus they all press(ed) the ball very often, very well and very effectively. We don't press the ball at all really.

 

[davymcfc]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Every time we put the extra man in midfield we look a lot stronger and less vulnerable defensively. Pellegrini has shown he is a great man manager however he has been found wanting again tactically. Come on Manuel get it sorted.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: 442 Must Go

Both teams are set up with an high intensity pressing system where every player grafts. Both have a better mentality than ours and both teams have/had a better keeper and settled back-line.

Comparing us to Bayern is utterly ludicrous, they lifted the CL to win the treble, last year won the double and most players then won the World Cup. Bayern and Athletico also possess/possessed a striker in both team that makes Dzeko look like Andy Carroll, Miller and Costa are world class whereas Dzeko is infuriatingly inconsistent unless coming off the bench.

exactly, and I will also add the Real Madrid won v bayern playing 442 away.

bit different that, because Real Madrid wasn't trying to control the game with the BALL. Whereas we try to do it, where 442 is just shit.

exactly, and as I posted before, this leads to two scenarios:
1) Dzeko loses the ball when he has runners (including the fullback at time) in front of him, and we get badly countered/overloaded/exposed
2) Silva drifts in to allow the pass from central midfield to be played, he doesnt lose posession often but it leaves one flanks exposed and we are punished for it later.

i'd add that simply shifting Silva to 10 will solve 8/10 problems even with Yaya in the team as a midfield 2, simply because it allows us to keep possession better, not lose the ball in dangerous areas, protects one of our flanks from being exposed.

 

[Blankomania]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Which of Yaya or silva do you play in the number 10 role?

If you play yaya we would be more defensively solid with Fernando and Fernandinho playing behing him, but that would mean we would be relying a large amount on yaya regaining the form of last year, what if he doesn't? This also means silva plays on the wing which leaves the fullback exposed, because we all know silva isn't the best defensively (though he doesn't get the stick yaya gets).

If you play silva in the number 10 position, you've still got yaya playing in a cm position, so leaving us more exposed defensively. Do you drop yaya completely?

On this forum people seem to think putting 3 in midfield will solve all of our problems. We used to play 3 in midfield with mancini and then struggled to break sides down....

 

[kippaxblue76]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

All depends on who the two up top are and how they work for the rest of the team.

 

[bluechampion7891]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Which of Yaya or silva do you play in the number 10 role?

If you play yaya we would be more defensively solid with Fernando and Fernandinho playing behing him, but that would mean we would be relying a large amount on yaya regaining the form of last year, what if he doesn't? This also means silva plays on the wing which leaves the fullback exposed, because we all know silva isn't the best defensively (though he doesn't get the stick yaya gets).

If you play silva in the number 10 position, you've still got yaya playing in a cm position, so leaving us more exposed defensively. Do you drop yaya completely?

On this forum people seem to think putting 3 in midfield will solve all of our problems. We used to play 3 in midfield with mancini and then struggled to break sides down....

My take...for all games except against the like of bayern, Silva should be 10. A lot of our problems would be solved.
Yaya is simple ineffective in no 10 because he cant control the game from there and doesnt put a shift at all. And unlike Silva he doesnt have the agility to move in tight space when facing away from the goal.

For Europe that makes sense, perhaps I'd go as far as to say that either drop yaya and have Silva as 10 with the ferns working CM (it would be a counter attack system) or drop Silva and play Yaya.

 

[super_city_si]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Which of Yaya or silva do you play in the number 10 role?

If you play yaya we would be more defensively solid with Fernando and Fernandinho playing behing him, but that would mean we would be relying a large amount on yaya regaining the form of last year, what if he doesn't? This also means silva plays on the wing which leaves the fullback exposed, because we all know silva isn't the best defensively (though he doesn't get the stick yaya gets).

If you play silva in the number 10 position, you've still got yaya playing in a cm position, so leaving us more exposed defensively. Do you drop yaya completely?

On this forum people seem to think putting 3 in midfield will solve all of our problems. We used to play 3 in midfield with mancini and then struggled to break sides down....

I would keep Yaya as part of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1. That way we have jovetic/silva/Milner who will keep possession better than Aguero and Dzeko and also drop deeper to help defensively.
We can add Nasri and Navas the mix for the 3.

 

[NipHolmes]

Re: 442 Must Go

Bayern absolutely destroyed Barca a couple of years back using a two up top and often use Muller in an advanced role. Atletico Madrid played two up top much of the time last year and won La Liga. We ourselves won the league playing two up top. Juventus trounced Serie A using Tevez and Llorente up front.

Every major league in Europe was won by a team who plays with two up front either as their main system or as one which they often switch two.

There is this fashion to say things like "the 4-4-2 is old fashioned" which is totally bollocks. Formations and styles aren't the be-all and end-all of football and there's no right or wrong way to set up. Look at the difference in how we're playing this and last season and we're playing the same formation.

Saying that a certain formation doesn't "work" is like saying that a certain musical note doesn't work. It's just daft and the obsession around a set of numbers describing where players stand on the pitch is just puzzling. I genuinely blame FIFA and Football Manager for this type of stuff.

With Bayern:
1) they had technical strikers who dont lose possession and are both intelligent. Dzeko today compromised us in a lot of dangerous positions.

With Athletico:
2) work rate, 2 really hard working CMs. A counter attacking system where everyone works their socks off and built on defense. We simply dont have CM's or even WM's of these type.

442 itself inst to blame, its the way we play or use the personnel in this system combined with the tactics that is costing us

You pick a formation to suit players we have. 4-3-3 shores us up.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Stop the 4-2-2-2 and go with a three man midfield, PLEAS

Systems all have strengths and weaknesses but they ultimately depend on the players you pick. 4-4-2 can work with the right players but Dzeko & Aguero as the 2 never seems to work very well plus Yaya Toure isn't really equipped to be one of the middle two of the midfield 4.