Strike

[Matty]

What you're saying is that the response really means "Yes, but at your own risk, as we can't defend you from any action taken against you by the company". Unfortunately not is, therefore, simply not true.

Take a look here.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.catererandhotelkeeper.co.uk/articles/31/7/2009/328981/you-cant-just-sack-the-strikers.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.catererandhotelkeeper.co.uk/ ... rikers.htm</a>


Where a union has called a strike following a successful ballot of its members, unfair dismissal protection extends not only to members of the union, but to all employees who participate in the action, despite the fact that non-union members do not have an entitlement to vote in the ballot.

So the Union's answer on the website is indeed not correct.

The question was pretty simple, can a non-union member participate in strike action.

The answer was pretty clear, unfortunately not.

That, it seems, is not true. A non-union member absolutely CAN participate, and must be treated in the same way as a union member by his employer. So, therefore, why did the union say they couldn't participate?

On a seprate, but related, issue. One could argue that, if you were not a union member, and therefore did not have a say in whether strike action was taken or not, that it is your right to chose whether to participate or not. If you're a union member then it's a bit different, you were given the right to vote, you either did or didn't take up this right, and the outcome was either what you voted for or what you didn't vote for. In either scenario, you've had your chance to have a say, it's been registered in you vote (or lack thereof), if the outcome goes against your wishes then I feel it's a bit rich to then decide not to honour the outcome and refuse to strike.

In short, union members should stand by the decisions of their union and strike/not strike based upon those decisions. Non-union members didn't have a say, and as such can't be held to the same set of rules.

 

[TGR]

Wait a minute - so if you don't strike but are happy to take the benefits that a strike may acheive then you are in the wrong.

So therefore you are advocating people in a union striking and winning getting more pay/benefits than those not in a union arent you. So people in the same workplace would be getting better pay and benefits whilst doing the same job purely because they were in the union.

Doesnt that go against the ethos of a union?

100%.

The whole concept of unions is that you stand together.
Lets give medals to deserter's, they were doing the same job but would not do the dirty work, and fucked off when the going gets tough.

From your user name would it be fair to say that you have fucked off from the UK to go and live in Australia? If so then please tell us why?

 

[pominoz]

Wait a minute - so if you don't strike but are happy to take the benefits that a strike may acheive then you are in the wrong.

So therefore you are advocating people in a union striking and winning getting more pay/benefits than those not in a union arent you. So people in the same workplace would be getting better pay and benefits whilst doing the same job purely because they were in the union.

Doesnt that go against the ethos of a union?

100%.

The whole concept of unions is that you stand together.
Lets give medals to deserter's, they were doing the same job but would not do the dirty work, and fucked off when the going gets tough.

From your user name would it be fair to say that you have fucked off from the UK to go and live in Australia? If so then please tell us why?

My first wife was Australian and was homesick, that has what to do with this discussion and my right to have a view on it?

 

[bluejon]

There's some right old stuff and nonsense on here now. I'm not going to start quoting multiple posts but a few points.

Nobody wants to strike. Everybody would prefer issues to be resolved by arbitration. But if that isn't possible then the ultimate threat must exist to withdraw labour or nothing would ever be solved by arbitration.

Whether a non union strike breaker should be classed as a scab is a matter of opinion but I wouldn't waste any time arguing over it. There is no difference. If you break a strike, you are a certain type of person and the technicalities of whether you are an official scab or not is neither here nor there.

This idea that a union wanting staff of the same grades to be on different rates of pay is also hyperthetical nonsense. The union negotiates for all staff. Members and non members. Anyone who's lack of principles enables them to work during a strike, isn't going to worry about reaping benefits for something they haven't contributed towards achieving. And the company wouldn't allow it in any case. This is why I believe a closed shop should still be in operation. Not that that is ever going to happen again though.

The argument over the percentage of people who voted for action is another damp squid. It's also something certain members of the government are taking advice on whether they can get away with enforcing on union ballots. As someone has pointed out, they wouldn't even be in a postion to be making decisions on anything if the same rules applied to them. I'm not aware of any democratic election, anywhere where a majority of those eligible to vote is needed as opposed to a majority who actually do vote. It's laughable that people are justifying their strike breaking on this. If enough of them had bothered their arses voting against something they disagree with in the first place then there would have been no strike. Although I suppose they think, why bother, when they just ignore the result of the ballot if they don't like it anyway.

If people want to break strikes, they will. No amount of words will convince them they are in the wrong. I suspect most of them know they are really. I just wish they would at least have the decency to not insult the people who are fighting on their behalf by keeping quiet by not trying to justify their actions.

why is it laughable to justify breaking a strike when it is such a small majority of the union membership that has voted for it? especially when some of the underhand tactics of the unions have caused a situation when a significant number of strikes have been called without large numbers of union members being aware there was even a vote (which has happened a few times with the PCS)? there is an assumption on here that the unions are beyond reproach, and it is entirely incorrect, they are as bad as the bastards in power in some respects. the "picketline" yesterday was made up of 6 people out of a building that has 100's of workers in it, that gives an even better indication as to where the majority's affiliations lie.
me and my wife discussed her actions in depth before she did what she did yesterday as she has never broken a strike before, no matter how much it cost the family. whilst I accept there are some on here who will not see the sense in what she did, I respect her hugely for not bowing down to a ridiculously small number of people who are doing this for their own agenda, and are only causing even more harm to the people they are meant to be there to represent
and as it turns out, the vast majority of her fellow workers followed suit....

 

[Matty]

the "picketline" yesterday was made up of 6 people out of a building that has 100's of workers in it, that gives an even better indication as to where the majority's affiliations lie.

It probably gives more of an indication of the changes to the laws surrounding striking. Gone are the days when, like the miners in the 1980's, you had hundreds of people picketing their employers place of work, that's not legally allowable these days. There is a limit on the number of people who can picket outside a place of employment, I don't know what that limit is currently set to, but 6 seems about right.

 

[TGR]

100%.

The whole concept of unions is that you stand together.
Lets give medals to deserter's, they were doing the same job but would not do the dirty work, and fucked off when the going gets tough.

From your user name would it be fair to say that you have fucked off from the UK to go and live in Australia? If so then please tell us why?

My first wife was Australian and was homesick, that has what to do with this discussion and my right to have a view on it?

Because you don't live in this country.
You don't pay tax in this country
You don't really see or genuinely know what is going on in this country
But you think you have the right to tell people in this country not to cross a picket line?
FFS!

 

[bluejon]

the "picketline" yesterday was made up of 6 people out of a building that has 100's of workers in it, that gives an even better indication as to where the majority's affiliations lie.

It probably gives more of an indication of the changes to the laws surrounding striking. Gone are the days when, like the miners in the 1980's, you had hundreds of people picketing their employers place of work, that's not legally allowable these days. There is a limit on the number of people who can picket outside a place of employment, I don't know what that limit is currently set to, but 6 seems about right.

I've just made a pretty rudimentary check, but as far as I can tell, there is no limit to a picketline in the UK. an employer can apply for an injunction in certain cases, but this did not happen yesterday. 6 people was a good indicator of the support the workers had for the strike. the fact the office was full tells the other side of the story

and for reference (yes, I know its Wikipedia, so if its wrong, so be it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Union_and_Labour_Relations_(Consolidation)_Act_1992

 

[pominoz]

From your user name would it be fair to say that you have fucked off from the UK to go and live in Australia? If so then please tell us why?

My first wife was Australian and was homesick, that has what to do with this discussion and my right to have a view on it?

Because you don't live in this country.
You don't pay tax in this country
You don't really see or genuinely know what is going on in this country
But you think you have the right to tell people in this country not to cross a picket line?
FFS!

I did not know that workers rights was a UK exclusive issue, thanks for letting me know.

Am i no longer allowed to take an interest in Manchester City because i live overseas?
Please let me know, so that i can disable my account on here.
Typical Tory dunderhead.

Edit- Any way it has been a good discussion (until TGR) and i bid you all a goodnight, as it is 2-50am here. School run in the morning :)
Night all.

 

[Matty]

the "picketline" yesterday was made up of 6 people out of a building that has 100's of workers in it, that gives an even better indication as to where the majority's affiliations lie.

It probably gives more of an indication of the changes to the laws surrounding striking. Gone are the days when, like the miners in the 1980's, you had hundreds of people picketing their employers place of work, that's not legally allowable these days. There is a limit on the number of people who can picket outside a place of employment, I don't know what that limit is currently set to, but 6 seems about right.

I've just made a pretty rudimentary check, but as far as I can tell, there is no limit to a picketline in the UK. an employer can apply for an injunction in certain cases, but this did not happen yesterday. 6 people was a good indicator of the support the workers had for the strike. the fact the office was full tells the other side of the story

and for reference (yes, I know its Wikipedia, so if its wrong, so be it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Union_and_Labour_Relations_(Consolidation)_Act_1992

Check ou this link, the section headed "Mass Picketing"

https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/going-on-strike-and-picketing

Not officially an enforceable law, but a "code of practice" that most unions will follow.

 

[wayne71]

Because you don't live in this country.
You don't pay tax in this country
You don't really see or genuinely know what is going on in this country
But you think you have the right to tell people in this country not to cross a picket line?
FFS!

A lot of us expats still pay a lot of tax in the UK, especially those with properties in the UK.

Personally I think its disgraceful to cross a picket line sticking two fingers up to your workmates yet quite happily accept any benefits from the strike action.