Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

[The perfect fumble]

So how is multiculturalism different to melting pot

You're having a laugh.

 

[Vic]

I'm not arguing against the existence of difference in British society, nor am I denying that Britain contains many diverse cultures, that would be ludicrous, I am not making that case, and I'm definitely not making a case for nationalism....

A simple definition of nationalism.

1. : loyalty and devotion to a nation. especially : a sense of national consciousness (see consciousness sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.

I'm making the case for something, regardless of ones race or religion, that we all share as Brits, irrespective of our differences, something around which we can coalesce, a shared commonality, because without it we cease to function as a harmonious society.

Without that glue of common culture, without some small overlap between the way you see the world and the way the man next to you sees the world, then we descend into tribalism.

Countries like Yugoslavia fold when there's nothing to hold them together, or begin to fracture, like the USA is in danger of doing.

My argument against multiculturalism is not a denial of the multiple cultures that exist in the UK, nor an argument that they should be treated differently from each other, it is that multiculturalism emphasises our differences over the things we have in common.

They say unity is strength, so if we want a strong resilient country at ease with itself, we must find those things that unite us, regardless of our differences, because if we can't find those things around which we can all unite we're not a United Kingdom.

I keep trying to understand why you're bothering with all this.

If your penultimate paragraph here is it in a nutshell, I don't see the problem. If we have a philosophy / culture / specific events that celebrate differences, can't we unite around celebrating and enjoying the differences? I mean, where would we be without foreign imports like Morris dancing, let alone the Britannia Coconut Dancers?

Frankly, your "common culture" idea sounds awfully dull. Vivent les différences!

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Braverman again even the Tories find her policies cruel

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Has anyone suggested bringing back folk music and culture?

 

[Vic]

Surely that's not true. Unless you count the people whose country changed under them.

I think you may be right. Someone on radio said 2 billion people - but UN figures suggest more like 300 million (4%). Sorry.

 

[bluethrunthru]

This is brutal

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

So how is multiculturalism different to melting pot

Fumble is correct in that a melting pot involves cultures mixing together. So we go out for Chinese and Indian meals, but ones you're unlikely to find in China or India. Those have evolved to fit the foreign market that is, for them, the UK.

Multi-culturalism involves different races, religions and cultures existing alongside each other while maintaining their distinctive features. Travelling north out of Manchester up Bury New Road you'll see Sikh Gurdawaras, Mosques, Churches, Synagogues etc.

It always amuses me, when Parklife is on, seeing Orthodox Jews around Prestwich and Salford mingling with the Parklife attendees. Two diametrically opposed cultures in many ways, but they can exist side by side.

 

[Vic]

Fumble is correct in that a melting pot involves cultures mixing together. So we go out for Chinese and Indian meals, but ones you're unlikely to find in China or India. Those have evolved to fit the foreign market that is, for them, the UK.

Multi-culturalism involves different races, religions and cultures existing alongside each other while maintaining their distinctive features. Travelling north out of Manchester up Bury New Road you'll see Sikh Gurdawaras, Mosques, Churches, Synagogues etc.

It always amuses me, when Parklife is on, seeing Orthodox Jews around Prestwich and Salford mingling with the Parklife attendees. Two diametrically opposed cultures in many ways, but they can exist side by side.

I wonder what he makes of the eruv?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I wonder what he makes of the eruv?

I know what I make of it!

 

[The perfect fumble]

Fumble is correct in that a melting pot involves cultures mixing together. So we go out for Chinese and Indian meals, but ones you're unlikely to find in China or India. Those have evolved to fit the foreign market that is, for them, the UK.

Multi-culturalism involves different races, religions and cultures existing alongside each other while maintaining their distinctive features. Travelling north out of Manchester up Bury New Road you'll see Sikh Gurdawaras, Mosques, Churches, Synagogues etc.

It always amuses me, when Parklife is on, seeing Orthodox Jews around Prestwich and Salford mingling with the Parklife attendees. Two diametrically opposed cultures in many ways, but they can exist side by side.

That's bang on.

Because we're social animals we mix with different folk all the time, and we as individuals and society as a whole changes accordingly, sometimes imperceptibly, hopefully towards a more harmonious live and let live state, with cultures bending and blending but without losing their unique identity.

Let me give you a small example of where multiculturalism turns it to shit, When I worked with UK Trade and Investment, a government department that advises companies on export, it was proposed that black businesses around Wembley should be visited by black trade advisers and only by black trade advisers, the proposal was killed off, by the black businesses themselves, who wanted nothing to do with it.

It was assumed that black business people identified first and foremost as black, and that blackness was more significant than whether a business person was from Nigeria or Jamaica or born and raised in Hackney, or, Heaven forfend, that their skin colour was immaterial to them in their interactions with us. In their relationship with us they were simply business people looking to export to make money.

That's not to say that sometimes it can be a bit confusing, I worked with an Hasidic Jewish company in Stamford Hill, they ran their company from home so it was bedlam at times, kids all over the place, people coming and going, meetings suddenly coming to an end for no apparent reason, only to fire up again . In the early days it was difficult to build a rapport, no doubt an Hasidic adviser with my skill set would have been ideal, but we didn't have an Hasidic adviser, let alone one with my skill set, and it was my skill set the company needed. But together we worked it out and it was one of the most fruitful and enjoyable experiences I had with UK Trade and Investment, I remember it all now with a smile.

I've spoken at Asian business group meetings, Asian business groups are great, they increase business, to other Asians, here and to Asians abroad. But these groups reinforce a myth that exporting to countries that are not Asian is difficult, because supposedly white folk in other countries are reluctant to buy from Asian businesses, and that myth was constantly being reinforced, because the only business group these Asian businesses belonged to was their local Asian business group.

We all know places where different groups are in the same locality, but live mostly separate existences, with limited overlap of interests. The progressive response is to first identify these groups, perhaps set up a youth group, find community leaders to articulate the group's grievances and fund organisations to address them, hire a dedicated community liaison officer so the centre, be it the local council, a government department, or some other funding body, can communicate with the group.

Soon you've got a little industry going.

For the most part good-natured folk are involved in all this and sometimes good stuff gets done, but not much, and as for the isolation these Heath Robinson mechanisms are constructed to address? I'll leave that for you to decide.

Multiculturalism sounds wonderful, benign and non contentious, but its practical application is anything but. My contention is a simple one, any political movement, policy, grouping, whatever, that celebrates difference at the expense of common interest, I repeat, at the expense of common interest, does more harm than good.