Matt the Giant said:
But... I'm getting a bit tired of the "super star" hunt and "blow your mind out" signings many fans seem to demand and hope for. At this moment on this forum we can see how many posters say "buy Pastore, buy Aguiero, buy Kaka", buy buy buy. And let's face it; - these are all players who would not even consider coming here if they weren't paid a ridiculous amount of money for it. What kind of a team will this bring us? Where would the heart and soul be in such a squad
But these are just fans with their wishes. Their requests will have no effect on what management does. But yes management will continue to look at prospects, Just like they've always done. Albeit now with more resources to do so. It is really no different than it was before, except for the possibility of getting better players.
As for the heart and Soul, that comes with time and it changes overtime. But it is slowing appearing. We have Komps, NDJ and Silva. Who are consumate professionals and will eventually dictate the clubs persona. But we will buy some players who would become megastars and some who would flame out. It happens at every big club, and it will happen here. There just isn't any getting around it.
Well I hate to say it, but pretty much a team like the one we have today, not necessarily better. No heart what so ever, no feelings for the club at all, nothing personally invested in the club...
actually, if we buy better players we will get a better team. Coz some of the players we bought and thought would be great will flame out, and others would be great. Then we get rid of the flameouts and buy some more who may do a great job and stick.
But Frankly in modern football, no major club has players who feel personally invested in the club. Nor should they! They should however be professional, and do their jobs diligently. And most do. As for Players who kiss the badge, and profess club love? Well, that is often just for show. I don't kiss my companies badge, so I don't expect my club's player (who are merely workers for the club by the way) to have a personal interest in the club. A personal interest in your success is what will translate to success for the club. Just like it works at companies. If I have a goal of becoming a Vice President of my organization and one day running for public office. To do that, I have to work hard and plan carefully. That hard work and planning ahead is what will translate to success for whatever organization I presently work for.Similarly, If a player decides he wants to be a winner, or the best at his position or make his national team's squad e.t.c. That ambition and the intent to work hard to achieve it, is what will translate to success at club level. That is what we need. Talented, Professional, Ambitious football players. Not necessarily those who kiss the badge or feel the need to show fans they care. Often that is even irritating. As it insults ones intelligence. Besides how many have kissed the badge, only to fuk off to better options? Rooney! Owen! Becks! Tevez! Torres! Luiz! Ronaldo! and a thousand others. And I don't even dislike these players. I like ambitious players. They are the ones who drive clubs to excellence. We just have to be as ambitious as they are. And we will be the beneficiaries of the success.
We even have super stars asking to leave the club, making it look very bad in public, only to get his arse licked and get to wear the captain's armband. To me this is all so wrong. Mancini doesn't care at all... his only interest is to please his bosses, to keep his job and that impressive income he's on.
As for Mancini, I mean that is his job to please the bosses. And he knows in the long run that includes winning trophies or he is a goner. Am I against the Tevez captaincy? Absolutely! It was a pathetic idea in my opinion. But Mancini played in an era in which Maradona ruled Serie A. So one can forgive him for trying to create what Napoli had. A driven Argie, who singlehandedly drove them to the title as Captain after being a nutcase at a bigger club (Barca). The parallels were there between Maradona and Tevez, but unfortunately Tevez just doesn't have the talents of Maradona (but you have to admit he did drive us up the boards a bit). To be honest, I think Mancini is a good coach, and he gets it. He is going to make mistakes, but this is a unique situation he is in. Only Mourihno during his Chelsea reign has been there: I.e. A rising team with money to spend. And it is a delicate mixture of large resources, a larger expectation, and a small time window to produce. He has to take calculated risks, and buy time at the same time. Which is what he is doing, and he is still within margins.
The squad of super stars in every position will not work, ever. If we take a look at Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham, or even Everton and the Aston Villa of the last couple of seasons; those are not sqauds packed with superstars at all. Man U has Rooney, Liverpool had Torres, Chelsea have Drogba, Arsenal have... well Fabragas I guess is the closest thing they have to a superstar. Everton and Villa have none. But yet they manage to play very good football, winning matches they should win as well as a few titles all the time.
Again, this is often a misconception many city fans have, hence why they are dissapointed. Factually speaking, City has purchased only 3 bonafied stars since the Mansour takeover. Robihno, David Silva and Edin Dzeko. Silva was a co-star with Villa in Spain for Valencia, and Dzeko was a star in the Bundesliga. Every other player we've purchased, including Tevez were not stars. They were either good players on great teams or potential players. So to be honest, it is just a media driven clusterfuck that is pushing that line, and City fans shouldn't be buying into it. Yes, we have spent a lot more to acquire good players than a normal team would, but that is because of ownership who wants results fast. Meaning we have to go get good players at Superstar money/ Viera, Sylvihno, Tevez, Adebayor, Toure, Toure, Johnson, Balotelli, NDJ, Komps, Lescott, Bridge, Kolarov, Boateng, Barry and Milner were not stars by any stretch of the imagination. It is only in the Sunday dailies of trying to repeatedly state how much we've spent that these guys are so reffered as stars.
I mean none of these guys were in the top 10 players in the world at the position they played before they got here. These are not superstars, they are good players, some of whom will become superstars.
But because we fall into the same category as Chelsea and Madrid (the 3 teams able to buy bonafied stars now- ANd this is our first real year of being in the club) There is a sense we should and will acquire some superstars. And frankly for the money we pay, of course we should!
In addition to their respective superstar they have a hard working squad of very good footballers.
An example: Leighton Baines is not a superstar, probably not even known to most football fans outside PL followers... but I think he would be a fantastic signing for us, much rather have him than Coentrao for example or some Brazilian/Italian so called wiz-kid who will set the league on fire.
You see, that is where perception is playing a role here. This year, Leighton Baines and Coentrao have been 2 of the best young leftbacks in Europe. Baines, Shmetzel, Coentrao and Marcelo have been the 4 best LB in any league. So the purchase of any of them will cost us good money. ANd just because you view Baines as not a superstar doesn't mean he wouldn't cost as much as one. Carroll is not a top 20 striker in the world but cost 35 million, Which will be more money than we can sell Tevez a better player for. The simple truth is this: English Players cost WAY MORE than foreigners. I mean our most expensive purchase in the summer was James Milner! @6 Million, the summer before that it was Tevez, but only by whiskers over Joleon Lescott. Frankly no Foreign player with Lescotts skill set will cost over 8 million. So when we get into this discussion of stars v. no star, lets understand it for what it is. Are we really just labelling foreign players stars, and calling English players good role players to blur the fact that in reality the English players cost a shit load more than their talent suggests? Look at the Luiz Kid (Lefty CD from Spain who moved to Italy coz we didnt pull the trigger on the 7 million deal) He is 2ice the player Lescott is, but cost 1/3 his price. I mean Look at Lescott v. Kompany (who is the Superstar in that comparison)?
Trust me, when City eventually buys a star, we will know. Just like we knew when we got Silva.
I think we should focus in bringing in such players to complement and accommodate our "superstar" whom ever that might be. (Once Teves leaves I think we wont have one, but I'm sure there are players such as YaYa who would think differently), stop looking abroad for mega stars and look domestically for very good hard working footballers who understands what it takes to succeed in the PL.
Again, this is a continuation of the above perception. To be frank, the only players who know what it takes to succeed in the EPL, play for Chelsea, and Man United, and One plays for Arsenal (Fabregas!) The league has been dominated by this 3 clubs for a decade. Clearly, we would either have to start poaching the likes of Shrek, or we must go out and bring those who can take them on. Clearly, those guys do not play for Everton, Pool, and Villa. I mean, lets be honest we already tried that strategy. That was exactly Hughes plan. Buy the best players in the league the top 3 don't want and challenge with them. That didn't really work. SO we are trying a different route. One that has worked in the past (See Chelsea!) I,e. Go outside of the league and bring in players with the quality to Challenge the status quo. That is what we are trying to do. Albeit we want to do it with a younger sqaud that will help build the future.
Names like Ashley Cole, Coleman, Baines, Parker, Albrighton, Bent, Downing, Rodwell, Wilshire, Huddlestone, Modric, Shawcross and so on...
Most of these guys are middle of the table guys. And most will cost the same amount (or more) it cost to bring in better talent from abroad. Sure Baines, Wishere and Modric are special, but they will all cost between 30 to 40 million. WIlshere just snickered at the idea of switching for 40 million pounds. That should tell you what English talent cost. Bent and Carroll are good markers too. 25 for bent, 35 for Carroll. We would not be paying less for these guys, but more. Yet they will not get us to the top.
you know what I mean? Players who might flu beneath the mega- star radar, and all with PL experience
That is the thing though, just because they fly under the megastar radar doesn't mean they don't cost megastar money. They all do.
]We already have a few of those in our squad, in fact quite many of them; Milner, Richards, De Jong, Kompany, Johnson Lescott, Boateng and so on.
Exactly! Notice how all those that cost in excess of 20 million are all English! And had Johnson not been seating behind Downing, or Micah not been a City youth player, they too would have commanded 20-25 million.
We have spent.. I don't know anymore.. but it's an obscene amount of money, on players... but our best performers are lads such as Richards, Zabaleta, Kompany (he has what every other players should strive for) and the others names above, not the super stars.
Well this is not really true. Komps have been our best lad coz we got him young cheap and as a defender. Micah has only been good recently after years of acute inconsistency. And Zaba is a good step in. But there is a difference in class between step ins and starters. If Zaba becomes a fulltimer, you'd see how quickly fans will turn when there is enough focus to exploit his weakness.
A good manager should be able to gel those players, to make them play efficient football which also happened to be attractive to watch. It's quite obvious Mancini will not make that happen.
Again I can't say what Mancini can or cannot do. But I have seen him mold a great teams at inter. so I wouldn't put it past him. It is no different than how you sae Oneill put together good Villa teams in the past. But this is a different Animal entirely. Expectations are higher, and resources available and media attention is intense and negative. Oniell hasn't had this before, so I can't vouch for his likely success. I can attest to his Tactical knowledge from watching his Villa teams, but similarly I can do the same for Mancini from his days at Lazio. It is a totally different ball game at big clubs. Many great tacticians just can't manage exceptional talent. ANd that is what is required at the very top. The Mancini of Lazio was just as tactically astute, if not more so than the Oniell of Villa. But at Inter, all that Tactical genius has to take a bit of a back seat to talent. And gthe same will be the case for O'Neill or anyone else.
So I personally say No thanks to further super stars, and I would love to see a new management bringing the squad together and maybe get a few new "beneath the radar" players in.
To be honest, we don't really have enough superstars. When you look at Man U, you assume they have Rooney and a bunch of role players, but this is not the case. What they have are superstars, who play as role players. Chicarito was the Superstar of the Mexican league, now his is a bit player at United, Tevez our own superstar was a bit player at United, Berbatov (A superstar at Spurs, and the present highest goalscorer in the league) can not guarantee he will start at United. And so on, and so forth. It is not that they don't have megastars, it is that they have so many, most of them now act as role players. That is why they are more successful. Even Carrick was a bang on first name on the sheet at Spurs, now he gets every third game. And they have more in the pipeline.
We on the other hand buy 6 good players, call them overatted superstars coz they can't beat United away, and want to throw out the Baby with the bathwater. We just aren't there yet. They have more amo than we do. That is just a fact. And either we reinforce, or we get comfy with Europa or worse midleague status.
]I'll gladly wait for few more years if that's what it takes. As long as I can feel proud of team I'm happy. Last match against Liverpool amongst a far too many others since Mancini took over, did not make me proud, but very very sad. Sad because I no longer enjoy watching City, something I have done for so long now. It breaks my hear to be honest and I still haven't gotten over what I last saw. I'll be overjoyed if we win this weekend, and also if we finish top four, but that will not change anything regarding my take on Mancini. I supported him for a long while, but I just can't lie to myself any longer. He is destroying the club I love, with the players he buy, with his tactics and strategies, his lack of man-management, and I'm very upset about that.
Fuck I'm sad.
To be honest, I am at a loss at why these sentiments have become rampant with City fans. Being disappointed with the team and all. Why exactly is that? Is it that City is playing poorer football? Coz frankly I don't see it. The only difference seems to be expectation. Frankly City has played it's best football in the last decade over the last 2 years. It seems we have quickly forgotten been beaten home and away easily. It is not enough to claim, those players at least gave their best. That is just conjecture. There is nothing suggesting most of these players aren't doing the same, even when they are not winning. I mean who isn't giving his best? These guys play their hearts out game in game out. Okay maybe Balotelli can give a bit more. But does one player not giving his best really mar a whole 22 of players who sweat and fight for the cause. Upon all the hate Mancini has gotten, no team has been able to take all 6 points against us this season. And I am willing to bet none will. That is just not something that happened in the past or under any coach the last 10 years (and perhaps more.
I am not pining for Mancini here, as I have said earlier I don't know coaches that well. So I focus on players, them I can judge based on their performance. Coaches on the other hand is really subjective. So I stay away. But he has done enough in my opinion. Has made mistakes and they all do, even Fergie does. But we are still on track for 4th and are in the FA semi's. When was the last time we had those 2 things on show this late in the season?
Happiness for me is a function of results and not perception. I believe most are unhappy because they percieve something that may or may not be there. We are in the hunt for CL and the FA cup in mid April. That is joyous to me. And losing to Liverpool was nothing but catching a very good team on a hot night. Liverpool is as talented as we are, and they have finally found their form. Lest we forget, the only top 6 team to gain a point at Liverpool was Arsenal, and that is because they caught liverpool at their lowest ebb and yet were gifted an own goal by the goalie. That is how hard it is to play at Anfield. They crushed United, crushed Chelsea home and away, and will crush Totenham in a few weeks. They are that good. And the fact that we have raised expectation so high as to expect a result in a place where better teams failed, is part of the problem. City has been poor in a few games this season. One been West Ham at home, and a few others. We have been unlucky in some others, but by and large we have been a fantastically well coached team.
But that is just my opinion though.
Now this is one long ass response. Hope you enjoy it :)
