Supporting the Troops

der-bomber said:
There is no need for anyone to get all political in this thread, when all that is being discussed is a few dozen tickets to be given to a few latter day 'Tommy Atkins' who get paid 15k for working a 80+ hr week when away on OP's for 6 months at a time, as a show of support and appreciation.

Absolutely true.

Unfortunately,in my experience this is one of the few countries in the world where a vociferous minority are allowed to attack the very people that allow them the virtue of being allowed to post their opinions on an internet forum.


Give the lads n lasses the tickets.And have the grace to nod your head to them and say a silent "thanks"....if not for now-just maybe for tomorrow.
 
Marvin said:
Perhaps some thought to the hundreds of thousands of Civilian victims of the Heroic Allied Armies in Iraq would be appropriate?
Not to mention the Millions of Marsh Arabs, Kurds or anybody else who had a differing view than Sadam, that were either gassed, starved or shot !!!!!
As for free tickets for the troops, why the hell not ? Its good for them and good for the club as they carry a little bit of city around the world with them.
 
bluemanc said:
Marvin said:
Can I ask who is moderating this board at the moment? I have no problem with the thread, but with a PM I have received.

Please PM me. Thank you

I have no problem with the thread
Is that right.
To clarify I have no problem with people expressing the view that soldiers are heroes and should be saluted/recognised etc. but I thought criticism of that view was acceptable, or even healthy after all a message board is not viable if everyone agrees.

I would like to point out that I worry a lot about posting such views as I am wary of posting political comments, but eventually I can't help myself. What I don't expect is abusive messages so I have concluded that Bluemoon is not a place I am comfortable in. Result for some of you guys.
 
I never seen so much shite over some tickets that may or may not become available. They give away complimentary tickets probably every game.

The squaddies are out there doing a job they have been told to do. They dont have a say, unlike many.

Unless you have worn the uniform and been and done what they are doing now you cant really comment.

Do you think what you see on the news or in the paper is actually what happens or is it what you are supposed to see and think.

Give them the tickets to the games they deserve it, and a lot more.
 
Bovril said:
You do not understand nothing that is going on there and the implications that doing nothing will affect people like you sat in your armchair reading the bullshit you are spouting. Who the fuck do you think you are to say British Soldiers are killing farmers,

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/af.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/af.html</a>

Look at the Economy bit, then "Labour Force by Occupation". 80% of Afghanistan's population are farmers, and that doesn't even include the opium farmers.

Oh, and I didn't say that we have killed Afghan farmers, the MoD did:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.buzzle.com/articles/183277.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.buzzle.com/articles/183277.html</a>

never underestimate your enemy these farmers are worse than your Germans in grey uniform they are non descript and will do anything to claim the life of the people making your life so good

Firstly, saying that the Taliban are worse than the Nazis is just....I can't even find an adjective for that that isn't highly insulting, so I'll just say that I disagree. When the Taliban invade every single one of their neighbours, commit the Holocaust, and try to build a nuclear bomb, I'll conceed the point.

they are called Taliban and flood over the border from Pakistan and every other country hell bent on terror.

Pakistan is on our side, you know that right? What exactly would you term 'terrorist'? Are these Taliban terrorists the same Taliban 'freedom fighters' that kept the Russians at bay?

I have served for 24 years in every conceivable shitty dangerous sespit you can imagine but nothing NOTHING can compare to what these young men put their heart and soul into everyday to make your life easy.

I don't understand the connection between them fighting in Afghanistan and them making my life easier. Do you think that if it wasn't for the war, then Britain would be overrun by terrorists, and everyone would be getting blown up?
Why didn't it happen in the years before the war?

You Sir are a fuckwit of the highest order and deserve nothing. Go and spread your word in Luton and such places you pathetic individual.

What's Luton got to do with anything?
 
RobbieBrewer said:
der-bomber said:
There is no need for anyone to get all political in this thread, when all that is being discussed is a few dozen tickets to be given to a few latter day 'Tommy Atkins' who get paid 15k for working a 80+ hr week when away on OP's for 6 months at a time, as a show of support and appreciation.

Absolutely true.

Unfortunately,in my experience this is one of the few countries in the world where a vociferous minority are allowed to attack the very people that allow them the virtue of being allowed to post their opinions on an internet forum.


Give the lads n lasses the tickets.And have the grace to nod your head to them and say a silent "thanks"....if not for now-just maybe for tomorrow.

Complete fallacy.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_ ... man_Rights</a>

That allows me the virtue to post my opinion on an internet forum. I sometimes feel like I'm the only sane person left anymore. Why do men and women fighting overseas, essentially following the orders of the Government in charge at the time, have anything to do with my right to free speech?
Do you trust the Government to protect our free speech and our rights? Is that why we have good people dying in far flung corners of the world?

If you want to fight terrorism abroad, then good on you. Pick up a gun, get yourself to a terror camp in some part of the world and start shooting. Just don't get told to do it, and think you'd better for whatever reason. Is anybody under the impression that all of the soldiers out there truly believe in the cause they are fighting for?
If not, then what the hell are the others out there for? Because somebody told them to? They trust their bosses more than their own opinions?
 
RobbieBrewer said:
a vociferous minority are allowed to attack the very people that allow them the virtue of being allowed to post their opinions on an internet forum.
Don't be fucking soft. Conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq have precisely fuck all to do with my freedom to post on an internet forum.
 
Damocles said:
RobbieBrewer said:
Absolutely true.

Unfortunately,in my experience this is one of the few countries in the world where a vociferous minority are allowed to attack the very people that allow them the virtue of being allowed to post their opinions on an internet forum.


Give the lads n lasses the tickets.And have the grace to nod your head to them and say a silent "thanks"....if not for now-just maybe for tomorrow.

Complete fallacy.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_ ... man_Rights</a>

That allows me the virtue to post my opinion on an internet forum. I sometimes feel like I'm the only sane person left anymore. Why do men and women fighting overseas, essentially following the orders of the Government in charge at the time, have anything to do with my right to free speech?
Do you trust the Government to protect our free speech and our rights? Is that why we have good people dying in far flung corners of the world?

If you want to fight terrorism abroad, then good on you. Pick up a gun, get yourself to a terror camp in some part of the world and start shooting. Just don't get told to do it, and think you'd better for whatever reason. Is anybody under the impression that all of the soldiers out there truly believe in the cause they are fighting for?
If not, then what the hell are the others out there for? Because somebody told them to? They trust their bosses more than their own opinions?
Excellent post boss
 
This government have sent these troups into a war.It doesn't matter if they agree with it or not they have signed up and so have a job to do.A dangerous job at that.So they just get on with it with as much professionalism as they can manage.They see their mates killed and maimed.They come back to a country which at times is very apathetic towards them through no fault of their own.

How many on here would do the same? Not many i think so forget about the political agenda and think of the human cost.

Giving free tickets and giving them a name check before a game is a little thing but one which will mean a hell of a lot to all the people serving at the moment.
 
BimboBob said:
This government have sent these troups into a war.It doesn't matter if they agree with it or not they have signed up and so have a job to do.A dangerous job at that.So they just get on with it with as much professionalism as they can manage.They see their mates killed and maimed.They come back to a country which at times is very apathetic towards them through no fault of their own.

How many on here would do the same? Not many i think so forget about the political agenda and think of the human cost.

Giving free tickets and giving them a name check before a game is a little thing but one which will mean a hell of a lot to all the people serving at the moment.

"How many on here would do the same? Not many I think".
Yep - and I would be one of the "not many".
That is why I have never joined the forces,because I have made the conscious decision not to risk my life fighting wars that I do not support.
I fully understand that others feel differently,as is their right,and I wish them good luck and a safe return.
But they join up knowing full well that they may end up paying the ultimate price - sadly it comes with the uniform.
I would never insult those on active service,whether I support their particular conflict or not.
But I fail to see why a chosen vocation should entitle anyone to preferential treatment.
Paramedics,nurses,firefighters and others all see horrendous sights and,to some degree,put their lives on the line for the greater good.
Should they get free tickets too?
 
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
BimboBob said:
This government have sent these troups into a war.It doesn't matter if they agree with it or not they have signed up and so have a job to do.A dangerous job at that.So they just get on with it with as much professionalism as they can manage.They see their mates killed and maimed.They come back to a country which at times is very apathetic towards them through no fault of their own.

How many on here would do the same? Not many i think so forget about the political agenda and think of the human cost.

Giving free tickets and giving them a name check before a game is a little thing but one which will mean a hell of a lot to all the people serving at the moment.

"How many on here would do the same? Not many I think".
Yep - and I would be one of the "not many".
That is why I have never joined the forces,because I have made the conscious decision not to risk my life fighting wars that I do not support.
I fully understand that others feel differently,as is their right,and I wish them good luck and a safe return.
But they join up knowing full well that they may end up paying the ultimate price - sadly it comes with the uniform.
I would never insult those on active service,whether I support their particular conflict or not.
But I fail to see why a chosen vocation should entitle anyone to preferential treatment.
Paramedics,nurses,firefighters and others all see horrendous sights and,to some degree,put their lives on the line for the greater good.
Should they get free tickets too?


Whilst i agree with the majority of your post,paramedics,nurses etc can just walk away if they don't like something whereas if you sign up for the forces you can't.
A friend who used to be a paramedic left the job because of all the under funding.He didn't feel that he had the right tools to do the job properly.His choice.
 
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
BimboBob said:
This government have sent these troups into a war.It doesn't matter if they agree with it or not they have signed up and so have a job to do.A dangerous job at that.So they just get on with it with as much professionalism as they can manage.They see their mates killed and maimed.They come back to a country which at times is very apathetic towards them through no fault of their own.

How many on here would do the same? Not many i think so forget about the political agenda and think of the human cost.

Giving free tickets and giving them a name check before a game is a little thing but one which will mean a hell of a lot to all the people serving at the moment.

"How many on here would do the same? Not many I think".
Yep - and I would be one of the "not many".
That is why I have never joined the forces,because I have made the conscious decision not to risk my life fighting wars that I do not support.
I fully understand that others feel differently,as is their right,and I wish them good luck and a safe return.
But they join up knowing full well that they may end up paying the ultimate price - sadly it comes with the uniform.
I would never insult those on active service,whether I support their particular conflict or not.
But I fail to see why a chosen vocation should entitle anyone to preferential treatment.
Paramedics,nurses,firefighters and others all see horrendous sights and,to some degree,put their lives on the line for the greater good.
Should they get free tickets too?
That's my point also. I don't agree with war as a way to resolve conflict between governments. It's absurd that human lives are lost to support political agendas.

I would stop short of insulting soldiers and as above i wish them a safe return.

When you ask how many of us would do the same, it doesn't support any point as the people who wouldn't are likely to be the people who strongly disagree with it in the 1st place. Or they're likely to be the type of person who would morally question the positives and negatives of signing up in the first place.
 
Has anyone ever seen the film "Charlie Wilson's War"?

It's a pretty good account of what happened during the Cold War when Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets. To summate it a bit, the US couldn't fight the Russians because, obviously, that would lead to nuclear war. However, they wanted to stop the spread of communism and try to bleed the Russians dry leading to their eventual economic collapse.

Before the Americans intervened, the Afghans were basically getting slaughered, as they didn't have the necessary firepower of training to fight off the Soviet forces. The Americans secretly funded them, gave them weapons, and setup CIA training camps to train them to fight. This is where the whole "Bin Laden was trained by the CIA" thing comes from.

The Afghans basically fought off the Soviets and everybody was happy. Unfortunately, the US then pulled it's funding. At this point, Afghanistan was a wreck, they had no schools, hospitals, basic santitation or power systems, they had all been destroyed by the Russians. Also, thanks to a bloody war, 80% of the population was under the age of 25. Now these people returned to their bombed out homes, and due to the secret nature of the funding, most weren't aware of the help the Americans gave them.

It doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to get from there, having seen all the Americans taking credit for ending the Cold War, to develop a bitterness towards the country.

Over the years, the lunatic fringe started taking over the country and recruited many of these disillusioned/bitter people having filled their heads with anti-West propaganda. Opium farms gave them the funding to buy weapons from (ironically enough) the West, while also having a bunch of ex-Soviet weaponry still lying around.

So now they have a cause and they have some guns. Even at this point though, many just wanted to grow their drugs or whatever and have an easy life.

As the years progress, the small lunatic fringe who are motivated enough to do anything overseas start bombing US embassies. This still isn't Al-Qaeda, as that's more of a catch all name than an actual organisation, this is just the lunatic fringe.

US embassies get blown up, and Bush gets pissed at it. On September 10th of 2001, he recieves a plan on invading Afghanistan to stop this small lunatic fringe from blowing up any more embassies. The problem was though, the US public wouldn't tolerate a war against a small group of fanatics.

Then some Saudi nationals fly a plane in to the World Trade Center. That did a pretty good job of changing public opinion and the wheels started turning.

Somehow, we got dragged in to all of this. We go in to a country where a large number of people are still bitter towards the West. What do you think invading their country did for that? I would guess it didn't make them all love us.

So, we go from fighting a small amount of lunatics, to fighting the whole country. The Afghans don't get the Sun, or watch Sky News. As far as they are concerned, we have walked in to their country and started shooting people. Yes, these people are who we know to be terrorists, but to them, they are Bob next door.

We also have a six degrees of seperation problem too. We go to shoot Bob, and maybe we hit one of Bob's sheep. A whispering campaign starts among the population, and all of a sudden, we are 'murdering their lifestock and trying to starve them'. Yes, we drop leaflets, but so did the Nazis when they were bombing us and we ignored them, like they will ignore us. Yes, we are also helping some of their farmers - I saw a particularly heartwarming story where our troops were helping a really old farmer build irrigation ditches on his farm. We are giving farmers money to stop growing opium. Unfortunately, if they refuse and we suspect something, we bomb the shit out of their farm. Again, the whispering campaign starts.

There are two possible ways that we can 'win' in Afghanistan. Either, we stop the opium farms, get the population in to mining and create a system whereby they become more moderate in their political views. Rationalisation can only come with education, so the first thing would be to turn Afghanistan from a muddy shithole into a fully functioning country, with proper schools, healthcare and industry. You don't do this with bombs, you do this with money - and we haven't got any. The second way, is to kill every person in the country who has a nationalist or fundamentalist opinion. I'm not on the inside of the MoD, but I would imagine that this is the plan. I hope someone can give me some information about this to prove me wrong.

So, back to the original point about soldiers. Our soldiers are currently protecting us from people who are pissed at Britain. People are pissed at Britain because our soldiers are there.
Unfortunately, there is no going back now. If we pull out, they will STILL be pissed at us, and the world will become a much more dangerous place for us. If we don't pull out, they'll hate us for shooting a large majority of their working population. It's Catch-22.

Soldiers are needlessly dying because as I have said, you cannot solve a violent problem with violence. Non-violence and honesty are the only forms of morality. Anything else is inflicting direct pain to make others happy.

Every soldier is a human being who has an opinion. Every soldier has the right to be a consciencious objector, and decide not to participate in the war in Afghanistan. They could have gone to Iraq, or one of the hundreds of bases we have around the world. This is why I will never call the troops over there heroes, as they are essentially solving a problem which was started by their superiors. Soldiers in Afghanistan are capable of heroic things, and become heroes. I just think you have to do something other than be a soldier to earn that title.

Oh, and this comes from a guy who's family includes a VC, a CGC, and in 2005, a MC. We are a very proud, very British, military family.
 
Ronnie the Rep said:
The simple fact that these troops risk their life on active duties that our elected government choose to send them on should make them heroes in their own country. Regardless of where or who or why they are fighting. A simple gesture like this coupled with a bit of applause will do wonders for morale. - remember, one day they might be defending you on your own doorstep!

Really??
 

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