Tevez and Aguero v RVP and Rooney

[Stoned Rose]

to be fair all 4 are world class players and they each have their individual strong points and weaknesses
Van Persie - undoubtably the best finisher in the prem and with the service he gets at utd will score shitloads , however his injury records not great and at 29 hes the oldest , also his game is mainly about scoring and he is prone to disappear at times
Rooney - when on form unplayable , works hard , strong , good in the air and on the ground , when off form useless , first touch of a baby elephant , slow gets frustrated and usually ends up in the book or sent off ( this is the norm when he plays for england )
Tevez - not an out and out finisher like rvp , more like rooney an all round grafter . rooneys the better forward on his day but nobody works harder than tevez and on his day he ranks alongside any one in the prem
Aguero - the youngest and in my view potentially the best of the lot , the work ethic of tevez and the finishing and eye for goal of rvp , the strength and balance on the ball of rooney ,the lad has got the lot , okay things arent going as well this season as wed all hoped , but all strikers have a lull and hopefully we will soon see the old aguero.
end of the day you couldnt squeeze a fag paper between the 4 but considering age , injury and discipline records and factor in agueros potential then for me i wouldnt swap aguero for both van persie and rooney combined

and usually ends up in the book or sent off

 

[Stoned Rose]

Neither of em!! Any of you care to guess which 3 forward players have the best shots to goals ratio in the prem this season?

 

[Red Manc]

I will give you a selection of some alternative stats:

• When Tevez and Aguero start together, we win (100% record). That is not true of Rooney and Van Persie

• Currently, Tevez or Aguero play do not play as the only/solo strikers. In fact, they rarely have done. Van Persie’s and Rooney’s impressive goalscoring stats are mainly a result of them playng upfront on their own. The last time Tevez played upfront as the primary striker (10-11 season), he was the top scorer (20) in the Premier League and scored more than both Rooney (11) and Van Persie (18). Berbatov was also joint top scorer although his was boosted by scoring 7 goals in two games against poor teams, and was rarely selected for the big games

• In that same season, Tevez had a games started/goals scored percentage was 75%

• 2011/12 games started/goals scored percentages: Aguero (83%), Van Persie (73%) and Rooney (74%)

• Aguero had a games started/goals scored percentage of 83% last season at the age of 23. When Van Persie was 23 he had a games started/goals scored percentage of 47% (2006-07). In Van Persie’s first season in the Prem, he scored 5 goals in 26 Prem appearances (includes sub appearances). Admittedly he was very young in his first season

• In terms of assists in 11/12: Aguero (9 in 42 games), Tevez (5 in 11), Van Persie (10 in 52) and Rooney (6 in 50)

Thus, Tevez and Aguero are better.

Stats taken from ESPN (so if any are wrong, let them know)

The first one IS true of Van Persie and Rooney. Of the 6 games we've lost this year (no draws) either one or both have not started together:

Everton - Rooney started, Van Persie benched
Tottenham - Van Persie started, Rooney benched
Chelsea (League Cup) - Neither in squad
Norwich - Van Persie started, Rooney not in squad
Galatasary - Neither in squad
Cluj - Rooney started, Van Persie not in squad

Also worth nothing Tevez and Aguero both started v Ajax which City did not win. Although in the PL your stat holds.

Here's some more up to date stats:

Since all 4 have been playing in the PL i.e. since Aguero joined:

Aguero - 48 games, 29 goals, 11 assist - 0.60 goals per game, 0.23 assists per game
Tevez - 29 games, 11 goals, 9 assists - 0.38 goals per game, 0.31 assists per game
Van Persie - 55 games, 42 goals, 19 assists - 0.76 goals per game, 0.35 assists per game
Rooney - 47 games, 34 goals, 14 assists - 0.72 goals per game, 0.30 assists per game

Make of that what you will<br /><br />-- Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:25 pm --<br /><br />

Neither of em!! Any of you care to guess which 3 forward players have the best shots to goals ratio in the prem this season?

I'd hazard a guess at Michu, Ba, Fletcher

 

[Van Persies left peg]

Neither of em!! Any of you care to guess which 3 forward players have the best shots to goals ratio in the prem this season?

Hernandez? Dzeko? Ba?

 

[Van Persies left peg]

to be fair all 4 are world class players and they each have their individual strong points and weaknesses
Van Persie - undoubtably the best finisher in the prem and with the service he gets at utd will score shitloads , however his injury records not great and at 29 hes the oldest , also his game is mainly about scoring and he is prone to disappear at times
Rooney - when on form unplayable , works hard , strong , good in the air and on the ground , when off form useless , first touch of a baby elephant , slow gets frustrated and usually ends up in the book or sent off ( this is the norm when he plays for england )
Tevez - not an out and out finisher like rvp , more like rooney an all round grafter . rooneys the better forward on his day but nobody works harder than tevez and on his day he ranks alongside any one in the prem
Aguero - the youngest and in my view potentially the best of the lot , the work ethic of tevez and the finishing and eye for goal of rvp , the strength and balance on the ball of rooney ,the lad has got the lot , okay things arent going as well this season as wed all hoped , but all strikers have a lull and hopefully we will soon see the old aguero.
end of the day you couldnt squeeze a fag paper between the 4 but considering age , injury and discipline records and factor in agueros potential then for me i wouldnt swap aguero for both van persie and rooney combined

On Van Persie i strongly disagree, you make him sound like Hernandez, i.e someone whos great when given routine service but completely nullified without it, and whilst thats very true of Hernandez thats not even close to the reality with Van Persie and im sure anyone whos watched RVP play would agree with that, Van Persie even without the goals has so much to his game, On a pure technical level hes the best of the 4 by miles, he plays the lone striker role to perfection (far better than any of the other 3 in my book) our first goal in the derby the other week was the most recent example of this, even though he neither scored nor assisted that goal it was his interplay with Young that created the chance, he also has more assists than any other striker in the country over the last 18 months, which again shows hes far more than just a goalscorer, hes a wonderful all round striker, who not only scores more than anyone else but creates more than anyone else to.

 

[Van Persies left peg]

At the start of the season, I would have said RVP & Rooney would be the better partnership. I'd also have been in agreement with you that they'd miss the two of them more than you would miss Tevez & Aguero.

As I found 15mins spare, I thought I'd look at more closely and tbh, I found some of it quite surprising...

All competitions (Starting and as Subs)

RVP & Rooney
Appearances = 39
Goals = 23
Assists = 14

Tevez & Aguero
Appearances = 43
Goals = 16
Assists = 6

Now, although this doesn't mention how many minutes they've spent together on the pitch, it does tell me that RVP & Rooney have produced a much better return than Tevez & Aguero. The one thing that did surprise me though, was Tevez & Aguero making more appearances (albeit this doesn't mean they've spent more time on the pitch). Then again, both Rooney & Aguero have been injured for parts of the season.

As for how the rest of each team has performed...

Hernandez has 9 goals and 2 assists from 18 appearances.
Dzeko has 7 goals and 1 assist from 22 appearances

Welbeck has 1 goal and 3 assists from 20 appearances
Balotelli has 3 goals and 1 assist from 19 appearances

We can see here that the comparisons for these are quite similar. Hernandez edges Dzeko whereas Mario edges Welbeck.

As for the midfielders,

Goals/Assists
Yaya Toure = 6/3
Nasri = 3/4
Milner = 2/3
Silva = 1/3
Garcia = 2/0
Barry = 1/0

Total = 15/13

Cleverley = 3/1
Anderson = 2/4
Kagawa = 2/3
Valencia = 0/3
Young = 0/3
Nani = 2/1
Giggs = 2/1
Carrick = 1/2
Scholes = 1/1
Fletcher = 1/1
Powell = 1/0

Total = 15/14

Very similar returns here, albeit United have spread there's across more players.

As for the defenders,

Goals/Assists
Kolorov = 3/2
Zabaleta = 1/1
Lescott = 1/0
Clichy = 0/1

Total = 5/4

Evans = 3/0
Rafael = 2/2
Evra = 2/2
Buttner = 1/1

Total = 8/5

A better return here for United's defenders, although the defensive side of their game hasn't been as good as City's, that for sure.

So, whilst there's no doubt RVP & Rooney's contribution is very big in terms of where they find themselves at the moment, it doesn't seem as clear as I (and many on here) initially thought that they'd struggle should they be missing one or both of them. Both teams have missed one of them for a period of time this season (Aguero & Rooney) and both still played well in during their absence.

Thanks for posting that saves me the effort of having to look it all up myself! you did miss off Valencia and Young from our midfield list though....gotta be worth a few more goals and assists id have thought.....:)

It never even twigged that I had missed them two off the list.

I've edited the post now.

Have a feeling your going to take a strong dislike to me after this but ive noticed another issue.......you haven't added the stats of Valencia and Young to your totals....:)

Haha It dosnt matter im just nitpicking, i wouldn't have had the patience to go through and get all those figures myself in all likelihood so good on ya, must admit im surprised our defenders have been so relatively free scoring, hope thats a kick up the arse to Danny Welbeck when he sees both Johnny Evans and Patrice Evra ahead of him in the scoring charts!!

 

[Ahmed]

I would have found it more significant if we remove the COC stats.

No offense to that competition.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Thanks for posting that saves me the effort of having to look it all up myself! you did miss off Valencia and Young from our midfield list though....gotta be worth a few more goals and assists id have thought.....:)

It never even twigged that I had missed them two off the list.

I've edited the post now.

Have a feeling your going to take a strong dislike to me after this but ive noticed another issue.......you haven't added the stats of Valencia and Young to your totals....:)

Haha It dosnt matter im just nitpicking, i wouldn't have had the patience to go through and get all those figures myself in all likelihood so good on ya, must admit im surprised our defenders have been so relatively free scoring, hope thats a kick up the arse to Danny Welbeck when he sees both Johnny Evans and Patrice Evra ahead of him in the scoring charts!!

You nitpicking twat! Haha.

For the record, I support neither City or United, so, although getting these stats took 15mins max, maybe I am little "sad"!

 

[Van Persies left peg]

It never even twigged that I had missed them two off the list.

I've edited the post now.

Have a feeling your going to take a strong dislike to me after this but ive noticed another issue.......you haven't added the stats of Valencia and Young to your totals....:)

Haha It dosnt matter im just nitpicking, i wouldn't have had the patience to go through and get all those figures myself in all likelihood so good on ya, must admit im surprised our defenders have been so relatively free scoring, hope thats a kick up the arse to Danny Welbeck when he sees both Johnny Evans and Patrice Evra ahead of him in the scoring charts!!

You nitpicking twat! Haha.

For the record, I support neither City or United, so, although getting these stats took 15mins max, maybe I am little "sad"!

Not at all, in fact your probably in a better position than anyone else on here to do so as your view wont be riddled by any perceived bias one way or the other which is impossible to avoid in these types of discussions given the 2 teams in question.

Interested to know what site you used to get those stats? just the premier league one? would take me more than 15 mins to get that lot id imagine.

-- Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:03 pm --

I would have found it more significant if we remove the COC stats.

No offense to that competition.

Why? both teams used squad players for the COC games so surely thats relevant here when the discussion went onto who would struggle more without the 2 main strikers of each side and which team had which players to come in, you cant just go and cherry pick which games you deem relevant or not, you either use all the information available or none at all otherwise it all becomes a bit pointless and opinionated rather than factual which was the point.

The time where these stats will prove to be clear cut one way or another will be the end of the season, i doubt this thread in particular will get bumped in may but it would be interesting to see whats what over the course of the entire season.

 

[FootyLova]

At the start of the season, I would have said RVP & Rooney would be the better partnership. I'd also have been in agreement with you that they'd miss the two of them more than you would miss Tevez & Aguero.

As I found 15mins spare, I thought I'd look at more closely and tbh, I found some of it quite surprising...

All competitions (Starting and as Subs)

RVP & Rooney
Appearances = 39
Goals = 23
Assists = 14

Tevez & Aguero
Appearances = 43
Goals = 16
Assists = 6

Now, although this doesn't mention how many minutes they've spent together on the pitch, it does tell me that RVP & Rooney have produced a much better return than Tevez & Aguero. The one thing that did surprise me though, was Tevez & Aguero making more appearances (albeit this doesn't mean they've spent more time on the pitch). Then again, both Rooney & Aguero have been injured for parts of the season.

As for how the rest of each team has performed...

Hernandez has 9 goals and 2 assists from 18 appearances.
Dzeko has 7 goals and 1 assist from 22 appearances

Welbeck has 1 goal and 3 assists from 20 appearances
Balotelli has 3 goals and 1 assist from 19 appearances

We can see here that the comparisons for these are quite similar. Hernandez edges Dzeko whereas Mario edges Welbeck.

As for the midfielders,

Goals/Assists
Yaya Toure = 6/3
Nasri = 3/4
Milner = 2/3
Silva = 1/3
Garcia = 2/0
Barry = 1/0

Total = 15/13

Cleverley = 3/1
Anderson = 2/4
Kagawa = 2/3
Valencia = 0/3
Young = 0/3
Nani = 2/1
Giggs = 2/1
Carrick = 1/2
Scholes = 1/1
Fletcher = 1/1
Powell = 1/0

Total = 15/14

Very similar returns here, albeit United have spread there's across more players.

As for the defenders,

Goals/Assists
Kolorov = 3/2
Zabaleta = 1/1
Lescott = 1/0
Clichy = 0/1

Total = 5/4

Evans = 3/0
Rafael = 2/2
Evra = 2/2
Buttner = 1/1

Total = 8/5

A better return here for United's defenders, although the defensive side of their game hasn't been as good as City's, that for sure.

So, whilst there's no doubt RVP & Rooney's contribution is very big in terms of where they find themselves at the moment, it doesn't seem as clear as I (and many on here) initially thought that they'd struggle should they be missing one or both of them. Both teams have missed one of them for a period of time this season (Aguero & Rooney) and both still played well in during their absence.

Thanks for posting that saves me the effort of having to look it all up myself! you did miss off Valencia and Young from our midfield list though....gotta be worth a few more goals and assists id have thought.....:)

It never even twigged that I had missed them two off the list.

I've edited the post now.

You forgot add 6 more assists for adding Young and Valencia so it should be 20 assists :)

Edit: Missed the latest page posts that you've already been notified about this..