The Album Review Club - Week #127 - (page 1545) - Definitely Maybe - Oasis

Bill Walker said:
I must admit I havent listened to any Folky Rocky Psychy music for years, bands like this and Pentangle, Fairport were introduced to me by a Celtic hippy girlfriend in the early 70's, she was a free spirit, the type who wanted to dance around Stonehenge naked, (I wasnt doing that) when she realized I was serious about being an Engineer and buying a house she moved on to another lover who also saw other ways of life (mainly poverty in squat like conditions), filled with "tangerine trees and marmalade skies. "
I couldve been drawn in fully but the "it makes better sense" side of me wouldnt let me take that imaginary Hippy bus to Kathmandu.
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I love this. I have some similar tales of my now-wife at Grateful Dead shows.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
The reference to the “trendy boys” in “In The Gallery” was at the time, definitively code for gay men. Why make the reference at all?

The “Money for Nothing” line — the most controversial because it was the most popular song — begs the question — why does the “character” NEED to say it? For shock value? As someone else pointed out, if he had said “little ______ with the spit curl”, wouldn’t the world — including MTV — have been outraged?

In the context of “Les Boys” — which I find akin to Knopfler looking at animals in a zoo — and the “trendy boys” (who screw the “real artist”, of course, in the song), I think my conclusion about him is correct.

That’s not to say I don’t appreciate some of DS music or Knopfler’s skill as a guitarist. But it’s been very hard to get beyond these references.
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Where are you getting your information from?

The phrase "trendy boys" has never meant that to me and I was around at the time of these songs being released, it was certainly not a phrase I heard in that context. I'm not saying it was never code but that may be down to time, regional, national and/or social group differences. My theory is that a few people, who probably didn't like DS or MK in the first place, have seen the etymological shift in the word "fa___t" - which by the way didn't cause much outrage at the time of its release judging by the awards it received - and picked out phrases he used in other songs to assert their opinion that there was deliberate menace from Knopfler in the song Money for Nothing.

It's the classic No Smoke Without Fire accusation but in this case their only evidence is more smoke.
 
Citizen of Legoland said:
Where are you getting your information from?

The phrase "trendy boys" has never meant that to me and I was around at the time of these songs being released, it was certainly not a phrase I heard in that context. I'm not saying it was never code but that may be down to time, regional, national and/or social group differences. My theory is that a few people, who probably didn't like DS or MK in the first place, have seen the etymological shift in the word "fa___t" - which by the way didn't cause much outrage at the time of its release judging by the awards it received - and picked out phrases he used in other songs to assert their opinion that there was deliberate menace from Knopfler in the song Money for Nothing.

It's the classic No Smoke Without Fire accusation but in this case their only evidence is more smoke.
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Well, we can agree to disagree. Maybe I’m more sensitive to this now with an LGBTQ kid, but songwriters choose their words carefully and I find it hard to believe in three separate songs Knopfler has stepped near a fuzzy line entirely innocently. Perhaps we can agree that my term “unabashed homophobe” is too strong and agree that he displayed a certain lack of sensitivity to gay people that should raise a question or two.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I’m not inherently pre-disposed to dislike psychedelic music, nor folk music, but I am pre-disposed to intensely detest psychedelic folk musicians.

Rejecting society before it rejects them, so many were utterly self-indulgent, fatuous, drug-gobbling dreamers who talked in serious tones about the necessity of change as long as someone else is doing the changing and they were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted.

I’m reminded of Robert Christgau’s comment about Sting, which he also applied to Pete Townsend, and could equally be applied to so many hippies of this era: “We’re not just spirits in the material world – we’re also matter in the material world, which is why things get sticky.”

That said, music doesn’t necessarily have to ground itself in reality, and in fact, reality offers musicians an infinite variety of options to produce art. What’s winning about this record is that the (very possibly horrible) people that made it took advantage of their options, leveraged them, and made something the likes of which I’ve never heard.

In many respects, this is like looking at a beautiful flower, and then picking it, and then deconstructing it to see how its made in all its parts. Inside you find what makes it grow, the seeds for the future, strange shapes and ugliness and bits and pieces and utility, but also colo(u)r and beauty.

But that doesn’t mean I enjoyed this, because I decidedly did not. The opener is odd enough, but the minotaur thing is a show tune. I like exactly one-and-a-half show tunes: “Wait For It” from Hamilton, and the chorus part of “Into the Woods” (RIP Stephen Sondheim). It’s an appalling, cloying, irritating, annoying piece of wank and it damn near ruins the record. I HATED this song. I mean I DETESTED it.

And I am so freaking sick and tired of songs over ten minutes that when I saw how long “A Very Cellular Song” was, I almost gave up. But fortunately “Witches Hat” rebuilt a bit of credibility after the minotaur one, so I stuck around. And I’m glad I did. Yes, this is all dated and strange, but to a certain degree this is a triumph. The old religious standard is actually gorgeous, and the return to the unusual organ breaks and squeaking violin and jumping around vignette to vignette and the bit about amoebas – it’s all so weird and curious, I couldn’t help but derive some enjoyment out of the journey itself, which is maybe the point.

“Mercy I Cry City” is more straight-ahead folk competently performed and partially competently sung (maybe the best thing here), but “Waltz Of The New Moon” is awfully grating. Re: “The Water Song” -- I have no inherent issue with songs about water -- FFS, the most famous song on what was long the number one record on BlueHammer’s list in the other thread is all about water -- but this seemed a throwaway.

I note “Swift As The Wind” is a favo(u)rite of many here, though apparently it scared poor @RobMCFC, but I didn’t find this any more intriguing or attractive aurally than anything else here. But there’s little sitar break right before the chorus of “Nightfall”, and the chorus itself, that nearly rise to the level of beauty. I think maybe this was the one song I wished was longer.

If I’m going to complain about singers like I have before -- whether Geddy Lee, John Wetton or Peter Gabriel -- I’m pretty much trapped into doing so here. The deliberately out-of-tune cacophony doesn’t add to the uniqueness, it detracts. And it’s a shame, because I think a talented vocalist could lift these songs up in a way that wouldn’t detract from their lilt and would add something.

Do I like it? On the whole, I do not. Should I like it? On the whole, I don’t believe I’m supposed to, nor do I believe the artists care. I think the operative question is a meta one -- CAN I like it? In that regard, I very much can. I can because the reach exceeds the grasp. I can because the ideas are interesting despite the execution. I can because the stylistic movement song to song is varied, and the underpinnings are grounded in what the artists know – Scottish folk -- and what they found lying around the house as remnants of their travels -- meaning sitars, finger-cymbals, flutes and their girlfriends.

It's really hard to know how to attach a number value here. There’s a disconnect between the result and the goal, I think. “A curate’s egg” was a wonderful description. I think I will go with 4/10 – there’s not a lot of visceral enjoyment, but there ARE bits, and it is a unique accomplishment, and that should matter.
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Great review matey.......
 
Two Gun Bob said:
I travelled to Hebden to offer my new airbuds an outing whilst channeling thoughts and listening in to DLBH's album choice.

I asked many boats along the road to Sowerby if they had ever heard of The Incredible String Band from Scotland, but I just drew derisory blanks. Boats can be rented so they had to be day trippers and tourists buying into perceived ecleptic dreams as there was no other plausible explanation too chew upon.

I thought that this place was the home of shiny happy people-hippi-ism and the spiturally religious that go by the name of New Age. Adopting beliefs of the holistic as forms of divinity and then marrying their inner self to be being as one with that universe. I used to be a trainee hippie back in the day owning a full length and a sleevless Afghan, beautifying my mantra with petuli oil in a desperate desire to fit in.

Spiritual wisdom and the age of Aquarious my arsehole as these day trippers knew nothing about nothing, so after listening to the album in more depth we retreated to a centrally heated Micro Pub back in town.

You have to close quarter chat in these places as they are so small which is a good thing as it encourages dialogue. After a flaggon or two of Bosuns IPA a customer we befriended said he'd actually owned the album and that it is easy to dispell the band without first examing what they were really all about.

One of the songs on the album a Very Cellular Song aparantly has connection with the kundalini yoga movement and that the music is well connected in the area Hebden so may the long time sun shine upon you.

On returning home I did some research off the Tube and it transpires that the kiunduli movement song may the long time sun shine is Mike Herons work and not belonging one iota to their movement. It is in fact the final composition of the Very Cellular Song and may the long time sun shine upon you, all love surround you and the pure light within you, guide you all the way on.

If thats not lyrics to die for, then I will show my arse in Burtons Window. I didn't want to just listen and dispell the album out of hand because it did receive some well recognised adulation, so it's only fair to listen in and dig as deep as possible. "Open my eyes that I may see, glimpses of truth thou hast for me; Place in my hands the wonderful key, that shall unclasp and set me free" .. Oh yes indeed!

I guess the cellurar song is my favourite from the album next to Minotaur and the more I play it the more I become embroiled. Have a read below as it explains things far more eloquently than ever I could. I guess there's nothing wrong with chanting .. but there is a time and a place.

www.3ho.org

Welcome

Welcome! 3HO.org has a new look! Things look a little different around here and we’re confident you'll find something that you love.
www.3ho.org www.3ho.org

I would add lyrics to this fine song but we'd be here all day ... but safe to say they are quite exscuisite.

I am not going to dwell into detail with the albums other offerings as some were more pleasing than others.
I think poster Mr Journolud said it best when he mentioned that... It's not that I look on this like I do my first ex-wife and wonder what did I see in her but it's more a case of the little quirks that used to be so endearing are now, well you know how it goes. In the immortal words of Bob Dylan .. the times they are a changing and what tickled us all back in the day may not tickle us in the hear and now.

Quote from the intraweb:
"This album has the unique characteristic of being new (not just fresh) each time I listen to it (and I listen to it a lot!). I don't find this phenomenon in any other album. There seems to be infinite paths for the mind to follow through each song, I think due to the spontaneous, creative approach by the band to the music and compositions. Robin Williamson's lyrics seem to lead you in a variety of directions on each hearing, as well. It remains completely novel, an understated, complex-yet-simple integrated work by a group plugged into something big"

I wouldn't have listed to this album if were not for this thread and so I shall happily score it a solid 6.85/10

If anyone fancies a trip to Hebden to seek enlightenment from their utterly mundane City lifestyles then after using your 2 together railcards mentioned in the B.F thread you can have a" find your inner self day trip" for only £7 return direct from the Victoria station.

The Mike Heron Band A very Cellurar Song..Live at record store day 2013 ..Incredible String Band



Atmospherics to die for !
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That's really going above and beyond taking the trip out to Hebden - bravo........
 
Onholiday(somemightsay) said:
I also got the vibe he was channelling the overall spirit or the album too......... :-)
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What’s incredibly annoying is that part of that amoeba song is stuck in my head and I can’t get it out, even after trying Dylan for the other thread and then, when that didn’t work, some Black Flag. Someone help me!!!
 
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