The Album Review Club - Week #127 - (page 1545) - Definitely Maybe - Oasis

[FogBlueInSanFran]

One man's meat and all that... I wouldn't say this particular meat is murder but it's far from being my roast of choice (yes I know it's pretty poor use of metaphors or whatever it is). Have listened to this a couple of times, once at home and once in the car. Bit's of it I thought were very OK and that isn't meant to damn with faint praise. It's a bit of a doozy to say really but The Three Great Alabama Icons I liked a lot and there were other tracks that were attention grabbing. Not enough of them though...

I'm also a fan of concept albums, nothing wrong with a rock group wanting to tell a story but I don't think I got enough of a flavour of this one although I was intrigued by the frequent references to Neil Young and Leonard Skennard (I think that's who they were referring to). I may have read too much into it but there was a section early on that reminded me very much of the guitar interplay on Everyone Knows this is Nowhere (the album).

Ultimately there weren't enough of the good bits to sustain me and some of it I found a bit dull, maybe some of those songs were a pastiche of the era rather than standalone. Probably overthinking it again.

Doubt whether any of it's going to make my playlists, it's a 5 from me.

Quick edit, Loved Fog's review, although this wasn't for me it is nice to see it resonate so much with someone.

It’s much easier for me — I remember George Wallace’s virulent racism and attempted redemption; I remember Skynyrd and Bear Bryant and I (think I) understand “the duality of the Southern Thing.” As a counter-example, London Calling is an exceedingly “British” record in its commentary on social structures of the time, but was so good (and broad lyrically, musically and thematically) that it translated to Americans like me, whereas this one is narrower in all those ways and is harder to export to Brits I think.

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

It’s much easier for me — I remember George Wallace’s virulent racism and attempted redemption; I remember Skynyrd and Bear Bryant and I (think I) understand “the duality of the Southern Thing.” As a counter-example, London Calling is an exceedingly “British” record in its commentary on social structures of the time, but was so good (and broad lyrically, musically and thematically) that it translated to Americans like me, whereas this one is narrower in all those ways and is harder to export to Brits I think.

Forgive my ignorance on this @FogBlueInSanFran but why were 'the South' so annoyed by Southern Man - is it historically inaccurate or is it more that someone had the audacity to write about it?

Not looking to de-rail the thread but it has inspired songs by Skynard and now partly inspired an album from another..........

 

[OB1]

Forgive my ignorance on this @FogBlueInSanFran but why were 'the South' so annoyed by Southern Man - is it historically inaccurate or is it more that someone had the audacity to write about it?

Not looking to de-rail the thread but it has inspired songs by Skynard and now partly inspired an album from another..........

Lyrics to Southern Man:

Southern man, better keep your head
Don't forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man
I saw cotton and I saw black
Tall white mansions and little shacks
Southern man, when will you pay them back?
I heard screamin' and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long? How?
Southern man, better keep your head
Don't forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man
Lily Belle, your hair is golden brown
I've seen your black man comin' round
Swear by God I'm gonna cut him down
I heard screamin' and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long? How?


That should answer your question.

As incendiary as a klansman's crucifix.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Forgive my ignorance on this @FogBlueInSanFran but why were 'the South' so annoyed by Southern Man - is it historically inaccurate or is it more that someone had the audacity to write about it?

Not looking to de-rail the thread but it has inspired songs by Skynard and now partly inspired an album from another..........

It was that song and "Alabama" which both criticized race relations in the south.

Alabama lyrics:

Oh, Alabama
The devil fools with the best laid plan
Swing low, Alabama
You got the spare change
You got to feel strange
And now the moment is all that it meant
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Banjos playing through the broken glass
Windows down in Alabama
See the old folks tied in white ropes
Hear the banjo
Don't it take you down home?
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Can I see you and shake your hand
Make friends down in Alabama
I'm from a new land
I come to you and see all this ruin
What are you doing Alabama?
You got the rest of the union to help you along
What's going wrong?

Of course, the "feud" between Young and Van Zant was played up -- in reality they were friends and respected each other's work as the DBTs allude to. And I read "Birmingham" as a bridge-builder between the two albeit 30 years later but it's almost done for effect since, obviously, the DBTs knew the whole story.

Let us not forget -- LS wrote an awful lot of socially-charged stuff, even if race wasn't a topic (though admittedly it might have been in a topic in songs of theirs I missed). "That Smell" takes a page out of "The Needle And The Damage Done" regarding drug abuse, for instance. But my all-time favo(u)rite LS song is "Saturday Night Special", the best anti-gun song I've ever heard and the most direct.

 

[OB1]

It was that song and "Alabama" which both criticized race relations in the south.

Alabama lyrics:

Oh, Alabama
The devil fools with the best laid plan
Swing low, Alabama
You got the spare change
You got to feel strange
And now the moment is all that it meant
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Banjos playing through the broken glass
Windows down in Alabama
See the old folks tied in white ropes
Hear the banjo
Don't it take you down home?
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Can I see you and shake your hand
Make friends down in Alabama
I'm from a new land
I come to you and see all this ruin
What are you doing Alabama?
You got the rest of the union to help you along
What's going wrong?

Of course, the "feud" between Young and Van Zant was played up -- in reality they were friends and respected each other's work as the DBTs allude to. And I read "Birmingham" as a bridge-builder between the two albeit 30 years later but it's almost done for effect since, obviously, the DBTs knew the whole story.

Let us not forget -- LS wrote an awful lot of socially-charged stuff, even if race wasn't a topic (though admittedly it might have been in a topic in songs of theirs I missed). "That Smell" takes a page out of "The Needle And The Damage Done" regarding drug abuse, for instance. But my all-time favo(u)rite LS song is "Saturday Night Special", the best anti-gun song I've ever heard and the most direct.

Ronnie was a clever writer.

 

[Bill Walker]

It was that song and "Alabama" which both criticized race relations in the south.

Alabama lyrics:

Oh, Alabama
The devil fools with the best laid plan
Swing low, Alabama
You got the spare change
You got to feel strange
And now the moment is all that it meant
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Banjos playing through the broken glass
Windows down in Alabama
See the old folks tied in white ropes
Hear the banjo
Don't it take you down home?
Alabama, you got the weight on your shoulders
That's breaking your back
Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch
And a wheel on the track
Oh, Alabama
Can I see you and shake your hand
Make friends down in Alabama
I'm from a new land
I come to you and see all this ruin
What are you doing Alabama?
You got the rest of the union to help you along
What's going wrong?

Of course, the "feud" between Young and Van Zant was played up -- in reality they were friends and respected each other's work as the DBTs allude to. And I read "Birmingham" as a bridge-builder between the two albeit 30 years later but it's almost done for effect since, obviously, the DBTs knew the whole story.

Let us not forget -- LS wrote an awful lot of socially-charged stuff, even if race wasn't a topic (though admittedly it might have been in a topic in songs of theirs I missed). "That Smell" takes a page out of "The Needle And The Damage Done" regarding drug abuse, for instance. But my all-time favo(u)rite LS song is "Saturday Night Special", the best anti-gun song I've ever heard and the most direct.

Alabama.
I dont normally like songs about religion or politics, but that song is absolute genius.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Ronnie was a clever writer.

And his response is below (I think "Alabama" was as much the song van Zant was writing about as "Southern Man" but it was really both). There's just a touch of irony in the lyrics to "Sweet Home Alabama."

Sweet Home Alabama

One, two, three
Turn it up
Big wheels keep on turnin'
Carry me home to see my kin
Singin' songs about the south-land
I miss Alabamy once again and I think it's a sin, yes
Well I heard Mister Young sing about her
Well I heard ol' Neil put her down
Well I hope Neil Young will remember
A southern man don't need him around anyhow
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama
Lord I'm comin' home to you
In Birmingham they love the governor (boo-hoo-hoo)
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama (oh yeah)
Lord I'm comin' home to you
Here I come, Alabama
Now Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers
And they've been known to pick a song or two (yes they do)
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feelin' blue
Now how about you?
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama
Lord I'm comin' home to you
Sweet home Alabama (oh, sweet home)
Where the skies are so blue
And the governor's true
Sweet home Alabama (lordy)
Lord I'm comin' home to you, yeah, yeah
Montgomery's got the answer

Van Zant of course was not from Alabama (he didn't have any "kin" there), and didn't like Wallace at all. He's speaking with a common white Southerner's voice as a response to Young's criticism which Van Zant felt generalized about the south, which Young admitted was true later, saying he didn't like the lyrics he wrote on "Alabama" because they generalized too much and he deserved to get a slap back from Skynyrd.

 

[OB1]

And his response (why I think "Alabama" was more the song van Zant was writing about than "Southern Man" but it was both . . . and there's just a touch of irony in this I always felt) . . . .

One, two, three
Turn it up
Big wheels keep on turnin'
Carry me home to see my kin
Singin' songs about the south-land
I miss Alabamy once again and I think it's a sin, yes
Well I heard Mister Young sing about her
Well I heard ol' Neil put her down
Well I hope Neil Young will remember
A southern man don't need him around anyhow
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama
Lord I'm comin' home to you
In Birmingham they love the governor (boo-hoo-hoo)
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama (oh yeah)
Lord I'm comin' home to you
Here I come, Alabama
Now Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers
And they've been known to pick a song or two (yes they do)
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feelin' blue
Now how about you?
Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home Alabama
Lord I'm comin' home to you
Sweet home Alabama (oh, sweet home)
Where the skies are so blue
And the governor's true
Sweet home Alabama (lordy)
Lord I'm comin' home to you, yeah, yeah
Montgomery's got the answer

I had that song at #5 in my all time favourite songs.

He seems to be referencing both songs.

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

Lyrics to Southern Man:

Southern man, better keep your head
Don't forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man
I saw cotton and I saw black
Tall white mansions and little shacks
Southern man, when will you pay them back?
I heard screamin' and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long? How?
Southern man, better keep your head
Don't forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man
Lily Belle, your hair is golden brown
I've seen your black man comin' round
Swear by God I'm gonna cut him down
I heard screamin' and bullwhips cracking
How long? How long? How?


That should answer your question.

As incendiary as a klansman's crucifix.

To be fair not really mate - well known hugely inflammatory and scathing lyrics (not sure what his inspiration was at that particular point in time), it was never going to be a well liked in that part of the country but my query as to why they were seemingly so annoyed by it (effectively was it because someone was singing about it?)..........

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I had that song at #5 in my all time favourite songs.

He seems to be referencing both songs.

Indeed he is. And I love it too.

For Skynyrd I actually think the uber-popular "Free Bird" is one of their least interesting songs. But they had so so many good ones.

And in the "beautiful songs" category I mentioned on another thread, "Tuesday's Gone" should be in the mix.

Skynyrd was truly a special band.