The Album Review Club - Week #147 - (page 1942) - Blonde On Blonde - Bob Dylan

[Coatigan]

I get ya, I’m not really into the punk rip off genre - but Jesus of Suburbia is really quite special in its complexity - they play it live exactly the same also, impressively

More for a general discussion than regarding the bands mentioned, or ones like them, but why does a genre need to be time-capsuled, locked, or contained? Why does something coming later have to be a rip-off?

It seems to be only certain genres, like Punk, Metal and yes, Grunge that people seem so touchy and precious about. Like they can be the only 'true' representatives of a genre or era. Seems a bit self entitled to me.

You don't see Jazz contained to the prohibition, people still do jazz today. Or Folk to the Burns years (well before, obviously for both, just picking the most obvious ones), or rap etc. But someone taking influences from one or two genres popular amongst a much smaller group, and you get dismissive purism.

More a general observation than particularly aimed at you or what you said, and unrelated to the couple bands discussed. Which i wouldn't acrually disagree could easily be classed as a 'rip-off'. Just don't see what's so wrong in that, it is pretty common.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

More for a general discussion than regarding the bands mentioned, or ones like them, but why does a genre need to be time-capsuled, locked, or contained? Why does something coming later have to be a rip-off?

It seems to be only certain genres, like Punk, Metal and yes, Grunge that people seem so touchy and precious about. Like they can be the only 'true' representatives of a genre or era. Seems a bit self entitled to me.

You don't see Jazz contained to the prohibition, people still do jazz today. Or Folk to the Burns years (well before, obviously for both, just picking the most obvious ones), or rap etc. But someone taking influences from one or two genres popular amongst a much smaller group, and you get dismissive purism.

More a general observation than particularly aimed at you or what you said, and unrelated to the couple bands discussed. Which i wouldn't acrually disagree could easily be classed as a 'rip-off'. Just don't see what's so wrong in that, it is pretty common.

Rip-off sounds pejorative and usually is but I absolutely don't mean it that way at all. All music builds on the music that came before it, and a credibly executed facsimile of another band or even a genre with a twist is completely fine with me. E.g. if someone can't hear Led Zep in Soundgarden or Talking Heads in LCD Soundsystem or Pixies in Nirvana or Minor Threat in Green Day or Gang of Four in Fugazi then that person is missing something because the echoes are meant as an homage and a positive influence, not an attempt to do something unoriginal or steal their work in any way.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Will be a great gig at the Chase Centre , New Order are superb live IMO.

NO were a little ragged but then they often are, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. A concert to cover all the songs I love by them would be five hours long. My friend was bummed they didn't do Shellshock. About 15 tunes, and aside from the staples (e.g. Temptation, Blue Monday, Age of Consent, LWTUA nowadays vs before when they wouldn't play it, etc.), they did Your Silent Face which always makes me happy, and JD's Transmission which was great. They also did Vanishing Point which I'm not sure I've heard them do live before.

Pet Shop Boys were superb. Tennant seemed actually shocked and happy when he asked the crowd to sing Domino Dancing and the whole arena was screaming it. It's A Sin blew the doors out too. Really fun show. DJ (Oakenfold) was also good.

 

[Coatigan]

Rip-off sounds pejorative and usually is but I absolutely don't mean it that way at all. All music builds on the music that came before it, and a credibly executed facsimile of another band or even a genre with a twist is completely fine with me. E.g. if someone can't hear Led Zep in Soundgarden or Talking Heads in LCD Soundsystem or Pixies in Nirvana or Minor Threat in Green Day or Gang of Four in Fugazi then that person is missing something because the echoes are meant as an homage and a positive influence, not an attempt to do something unoriginal or steal their work in any way.

Totally, and so it should. It is more a point of something being seen as lesser for borrowing, consciously or otherwise, from something else.

Great list of name-checks in there btw. Interesting how our musical tastes are so similar, yet can differ so much at times.

 

[dromoreblue]

The Budokan version of Shelter from the storm is brilliant.

 

[threespires]

Every few years something or someone prompts me to consider whether Dylan is (a) a genius, (b) a piss taking blag artist or (c) simply a good but random songwriter who had a bag load of stuff projected on to him by whacked out students in the 60s and has just gone along with it over the years, sometimes displaying a distinct lack of quality control along the way. The only thing I've ever been certain of is I'm sure I've heard better harmonica players!

As @KnaresboroughBlue has made a point of highlighting the difference in arrangements, I will try and take the time to listen to some of the original versions compared to ones on this album and maybe even some of my favourite cover versions of his songs, (please don't thread ban me @RobMCFC !)

It's really nice to hear stories like @KnaresboroughBlue 's, there was a big enough age gap between me and my dad that we never really had much of a chance to do this, though I do have a soft spot for the lyric tenors that I think he found a liking for in Italy during the war. Fortunately, despite a similar age gap with my own children, music is so much more accessible these days that we can have these discussions and agree that my choices are the best :-)

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Every few years something or someone prompts me to consider whether Dylan is (a) a genius, (b) a piss taking blag artist or (c) simply a good but random songwriter who had a bag load of stuff projected on to him by whacked out students in the 60s and has just gone along with it over the years, sometimes displaying a distinct lack of quality control along the way.

The answer is 71% c and 29% a. :)

 

[threespires]

NO were a little ragged but then they often are, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. A concert to cover all the songs I love by them would be five hours long. My friend was bummed they didn't do Shellshock. About 15 tunes, and aside from the staples (e.g. Temptation, Blue Monday, Age of Consent, LWTUA nowadays vs before when they wouldn't play it, etc.), they did Your Silent Face which always makes me happy, and JD's Transmission which was great. They also did Vanishing Point which I'm not sure I've heard them do live before.

Pet Shop Boys were superb. Tennant seemed actually shocked and happy when he asked the crowd to sing Domino Dancing and the whole arena was screaming it. It's A Sin blew the doors out too. Really fun show. DJ (Oakenfold) was also good.

In their early days I used to love NO gigs precisely because there was a contrast between the apparent precision of the music and elements of its instrumentation and the slightly chaotic on-stage delivery; they were often on the edge of keeping it together and when they didn't it didn't matter anyway. Haven't seen them for years because of the fear it would crap on lots of happy memories, perhaps I should reconsider.

I'm sure we've all been pleasantly surprised by 'accidentally' seeing artists who turned out to be great, but the two that stick out in my case were The Pet Shop Boys and Alanis Morrisette both of whom I had no desire to see, and both turned out to be brilliant live shows.

 

[RobMCFC]

Fortunately, despite a similar age gap with my own children, music is so much more accessible these days that we can have these discussions and agree that my choices are the best :-)

Brian Clough in this thread!

I wouldn't say that Dylan is the best songwriter but he's in the top one.

 

[mancity1]

NO were a little ragged but then they often are, which doesn't bother me in the slightest. A concert to cover all the songs I love by them would be five hours long. My friend was bummed they didn't do Shellshock. About 15 tunes, and aside from the staples (e.g. Temptation, Blue Monday, Age of Consent, LWTUA nowadays vs before when they wouldn't play it, etc.), they did Your Silent Face which always makes me happy, and JD's Transmission which was great. They also did Vanishing Point which I'm not sure I've heard them do live before.

Pet Shop Boys were superb. Tennant seemed actually shocked and happy when he asked the crowd to sing Domino Dancing and the whole arena was screaming it. It's A Sin blew the doors out too. Really fun show. DJ (Oakenfold) was also good.

Cheers Fog , some of my favourite NO songs in that lot as you say 5 hours wouldn't do their catalogue justice.

Hard to pick a favourite there are so many but if they played Thieves Like Us ( I know they didn't ) it would go close IMO one of their many masterpieces you can dance to and listen to. Having the Pet Shop Boys on the bill tops it off.

Lucky enough to see them in 1985 , 1987 , 2002 and flew to Sydney to see them in 2016 , the only band / artist along with Jethro Tull from overseas I have seen live more than twice. Definitely in my top 10 bands of all time and yes the only one from sunny Manchester.

Off to listen to Substance once again (LOL).