The Bluemoon Song Cup 2023

FogBlueInSanFran said:
I think JD can lay a pretty decent claim to being more influential, but it doesn't really matter, as I consider the two fraternal twins and their overall output stem to stern pretty spectacular. But you make a very good point about Barney being banal/boring almost as a counterweight to IC. I bet if Steve Morris had ended up as lead singer as was considered we'd have seen a not-dissimilar set of lyrics.
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I don't think it is even close musically, which is the most important band. Joy Division were just another guitar band. Yes Hooky played more melodic basslines and Martin Hannett had some pretty funky tricks production wise. But, from a musical perspective, there was nothing really original about them. The Cure and Echo & the Bunnymen were also making similar music at the same time and that's just 2 UK bands off the top of my head. What differentiated JD, was Ian Curtis and what happened to him.
New Order was a whole different beast musically. There was nothing else like them previously. Yes you can hear their influences. But, as far as indie/dance, electro/rock goes, New Order were the first and the pioneers. Aesthetically, they were totally different from all the other electronic bands at the time.
Whether Joy Division would have taken the same path musically as New Order is open to debate. Ian Curtis was open minded and into his electronic music, so was Hannett. There might have been a Blue Monday but there would never have been a BLT or Temptation.
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
Do you really not like Stone Roses? I mean they did one record that I thought was quite good and then faded from my view, and I definitely think they reputationally squeezed as much mileage as they could from it, but they had some tunes I thought you'd have enjoyed at least somewhat.
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I do like a few of their songs but it’s a bit like you say about Radiohead. On the back of one average album, The Stone Roses are lauded as the second coming (see what I did there?), the sound of a generation etc. and it’s too much, in my eyes.

They are overrated when you stack up their songs against their comtemporaries, nevermind the best bands of all time. And as for Ian Brown’s vocals, they stink - pure and simple.

I actually have a few Charlatans albums and think they’ve had a decent career.
 
Nightmare Walking said:
I don't think it is even close musically, which is the most important band. Joy Division were just another guitar band. Yes Hooky played more melodic basslines and Martin Hannett had some pretty funky tricks production wise. But, from a musical perspective, there was nothing really original about them. The Cure and Echo & the Bunnymen were also making similar music at the same time and that's just 2 UK bands off the top of my head. What differentiated JD, was Ian Curtis and what happened to him.
New Order was a whole different beast musically. There was nothing else like them previously. Yes you can hear their influences. But, as far as indie/dance, electro/rock goes, New Order were the first and the pioneers. Aesthetically, they were totally different from all the other electronic bands at the time.
Whether Joy Division would have taken the same path musically as New Order is open to debate. Ian Curtis was open minded and into his electronic music, so was Hannett. There might have been a Blue Monday but there would never have been a BLT or Temptation.
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All very well said. I think of Hooky’s melody as really important and innovative plus Curtis as you say. And we shouldn’t forget Morris, who was fast and mechanical in a way drummers of other bands weren’t. In the end New Order is my very favo(u)rite band ever and unlike many I like their older, middle and newer career stuff.
 
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