The Boxing thread

[LongsightM13]

2016 Rio Olympics boxing bouts confirmed as having been ‘manipulated’ ie ‘bent as fuck’. Seems those involving Russian fighters were especially vulnerable to systemic cheating.
The Michael Conlon decision was particularly egregious, he won it by a country mile.


Rio Olympics: System to manipulate outcome of boxing matches by officials in place at 2016 Games
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58747880

Now updated with more detail and quotes from Conlan


Rio Olympics: System to manipulate outcome of boxing matches by officials in place at 2016 Games
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58747880

 

[Metalartin]

Now updated with more detail and quotes from Conlan


Rio Olympics: System to manipulate outcome of boxing matches by officials in place at 2016 Games
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58747880

Joyce vs Yoka in question too. I'll need to watch some of those fights again.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story...xing-drops-head-guards-changes-scoring-system
2016 was where they changed the scoring system for Olympic boxing too. Rather than punches landed, they changed it to the 10 point scoring system and removed the headgaurds, to bring it closer to the pros. Probably because most people were scoring it that way at home anyway, then complaining about the results, whether it was the wrong decision or not. Seems like they used the switch and any confusion it may have brought, as an opportunity to fix the results.

https://www.liveabout.com/boxing-olympic-rules-judging-and-officials-424010

Each judge must award 10 points to the boxer they judge to have won the round within 15 seconds of the end of the round. The judging criteria are the number of target-area blows landed, domination of the bout, technique and tactical superiority, competitiveness, and infringement of the rules.

 

[LongsightM13]

Joyce vs Yoka in question too. I'll need to watch some of those fights again.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story...xing-drops-head-guards-changes-scoring-system
2016 was where they changed the scoring system for Olympic boxing too. Rather than punches landed, they changed it to the 10 point scoring system and removed the headgaurds, to bring it closer to the pros. Probably because most people were scoring it that way at home anyway, then complaining about the results, whether it was the wrong decision or not. Seems like they used the switch and any confusion it may have brought, as an opportunity to fix the results.

https://www.liveabout.com/boxing-olympic-rules-judging-and-officials-424010

I dont seem to remember the Joyce decision being that controversial at the time tbh, a lot of people here thought he won but I seem to recall it was a lot closer than say the Conlan fight which really was an absolute disgrace, the most blatant robbery since Roy Jones Jr ‘lost’ to the Korean in Seoul 1988

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Re-watching the fight now. At times it almost looks like a mismatch tbh. Usyk is way to smart a boxer for AJ, he looks devoid of ideas to counter Usyk's movement, can't stop him coming in and out. Joshua looks worried.

In my humble opinion Fury has the size, power advantage and ring craft of Usyk, Fury v Joshua would be pointless tbh, there would only be one winner. Fury v Usyk is the fight now as long as Fury beats Wilder again. Joshua v Wilder should happen imo.

Yeah agree with all of that mate.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I watched the fight on DAZN with Spanish commentary. After two rounds I thought Joshua was doing all right - won the second and might have nicked the first although on replay I gave it to Usyk. Looked on Twitter and everyone was saying he was getting destroyed?!

After 6 rounds it was 3-3 and after 8 it was 4-4. I thought after round 2 the fight was really easy to score.

There’s the obvious overreaction to an AJ loss but he can beat Usyk. Considering how few times he caught him Usyk’s face was a mess and he was really hurt by every body shot. AJ’s issue is durability. I don’t think he was fighting scared or he even thought he could out box him I just think the whole night was about not gassing because he knew as soon as he was gassed Usyk would annihilate him. The lack of commitment in his punches was a real concern. The only way he can win the rematch is with a much higher output, more grappling, stiffer jabs and attacking the body. That can only be done by making it a 6 round fight and accepting if he can’t get him out he’ll either have to quit or get sparked out himself.

 

[daztrueblue91]

I watched the fight on DAZN with Spanish commentary. After two rounds I thought Joshua was doing all right - won the second and might have nicked the first although on replay I gave it to Usyk. Looked on Twitter and everyone was saying he was getting destroyed?!

After 6 rounds it was 3-3 and after 8 it was 4-4. I thought after round 2 the fight was really easy to score.

There’s the obvious overreaction to an AJ loss but he can beat Usyk. Considering how few times he caught him Usyk’s face was a mess and he was really hurt by every body shot. AJ’s issue is durability. I don’t think he was fighting scared or he even thought he could out box him I just think the whole night was about not gassing because he knew as soon as he was gassed Usyk would annihilate him. The lack of commitment in his punches was a real concern. The only way he can win the rematch is with a much higher output, more grappling, stiffer jabs and attacking the body. That can only be done by making it a 6 round fight and accepting if he can’t get him out he’ll either have to quit or get sparked out himself.

He doesn’t deserve a rematch and the fact he will get one is the epitome of why boxing has become a joke of a sport. It’s more of a popularity contest that sporting contest.

Twice in world title fights Joshua has been well beaten, and twice he will get an immediate rematch. It’s the same with Wilder and Fury. The first fight was close enough to warrant the rematch. But Fury utterly destroyed Wilder in the second match. There is zero need for the trilogy.

There was a time where champions who lost their belt had to work their way back to the top. Now it’s a money making scam which holds up the division due to undeserved rematches.

How many top ranked opponents has Dillion White fought whilst being the number 1 contender? He’s still waiting for his title shot whilst Wilder and Joshua seem to stay at the top despite being well beaten in title fights.

 

[jay_mcfc]

He doesn’t deserve a rematch and the fact he will get one is the epitome of why boxing has become a joke of a sport. It’s more of a popularity contest that sporting contest.

Twice in world title fights Joshua has been well beaten, and twice he will get an immediate rematch. It’s the same with Wilder and Fury. The first fight was close enough to warrant the rematch. But Fury utterly destroyed Wilder in the second match. There is zero need for the trilogy.

There was a time where champions who lost their belt had to work their way back to the top. Now it’s a money making scam which holds up the division due to undeserved rematches.

How many top ranked opponents has Dillion White fought whilst being the number 1 contender? He’s still waiting for his title shot whilst Wilder and Joshua seem to stay at the top despite being well beaten in title fights.

Absolutely fair there was a rematch clause against Ruiz who was given a shot out of the blue. As mandatory, the Usyk one is slightly different. There is an arguement to be made that rematch clauses shouldn't be in mandatory challenges but did you not hear what the Usyk management said? THEY wanted the rematch clause because they know a fight v Joshua with a 70/30 split in their favour is mega bucks.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

He doesn’t deserve a rematch and the fact he will get one is the epitome of why boxing has become a joke of a sport. It’s more of a popularity contest that sporting contest.

Twice in world title fights Joshua has been well beaten, and twice he will get an immediate rematch. It’s the same with Wilder and Fury. The first fight was close enough to warrant the rematch. But Fury utterly destroyed Wilder in the second match. There is zero need for the trilogy.

There was a time where champions who lost their belt had to work their way back to the top. Now it’s a money making scam which holds up the division due to undeserved rematches.

How many top ranked opponents has Dillion White fought whilst being the number 1 contender? He’s still waiting for his title shot whilst Wilder and Joshua seem to stay at the top despite being well beaten in title fights.

Beaten champions should always get a rematch. Perk earned from winning the belt in the first place.

 

[Metalartin]

I watched the fight on DAZN with Spanish commentary. After two rounds I thought Joshua was doing all right - won the second and might have nicked the first although on replay I gave it to Usyk. Looked on Twitter and everyone was saying he was getting destroyed?!

After 6 rounds it was 3-3 and after 8 it was 4-4. I thought after round 2 the fight was really easy to score.

There’s the obvious overreaction to an AJ loss but he can beat Usyk. Considering how few times he caught him Usyk’s face was a mess and he was really hurt by every body shot. AJ’s issue is durability. I don’t think he was fighting scared or he even thought he could out box him I just think the whole night was about not gassing because he knew as soon as he was gassed Usyk would annihilate him. The lack of commitment in his punches was a real concern. The only way he can win the rematch is with a much higher output, more grappling, stiffer jabs and attacking the body. That can only be done by making it a 6 round fight and accepting if he can’t get him out he’ll either have to quit or get sparked out himself.

Not too sure about the first round personally, 2 and 4 were the rounds people didn't give AJ enough credit in IMO.

AJ wasn't dominated in the first round, at least not as much as he was in some of the others but I still think it was an Usyk round. Usyk was fast out of the traps and set such a high tempo, that I don't see any other HWs keeping up with him. They probably wouldn't have even attempted to keep up. So to be fair to AJ, he didn't start slow at all. DAZN said it looked like two Light Heavyweights in the opening stages and it takes two for that.

In the second round, DAZN definitely seemed more interested in eulogising about Usyk's skills and the pace he set in the 1st round, than they were calling what was currently happening in the 2nd round. Sky were doing the same thing. They failed to call most of the action in the first half of that round as a result and there were less punches thrown/landed in the second half of the round(lots of feinting and pawing).

I think AJ should have used his size to rough him up and break his rhythm up as much as possible, by any means necessary, in the opening rounds. Rather than try and keep up with him and being concerned with making it look pretty(just don't let him work and bank the round if he could). Breaking up his rhythm should have been one of his key objectives, then he could have made those same adjustments he did in the 4th round onwards, to pick up the rounds he did. I thought one of Usyk's objectives was taking away AJ's right hand, which he did well for most of the fight by not letting him set up that punch with his lead hand. Since he has power in both hands he could try and catch him out by going straight for a big left hand or a big right hand without the setup, it would probably get less pleasing on the eye that way and he could get countered but he has to try something different.

You'd have to heavily favour Usyk going into the rematch though. Which will happen IMO, if AJ doesn't trigger the rematch clause while he has the chance, then there's no saying Usyk will fight AJ again. It's immediate or it's void.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Beaten champions should always get a rematch. Perk earned from winning the belt in the first place.

Where does it end? If Joshua beats Usyk in the rematch do they have a third fight? If Usyk wins that do they have a fourth?

If a champion is beat in a close fight then fair enough.

But if he’s completely outboxed/outfought or knocked out then they should fight their way back to the top IMO.

That doesn’t mean someone like AJ should start fighting bums. A fight and victory against a top 5 ranked fighter should put him firmly back in title contention.