The Boxing thread

Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
 
Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
There was only 1 failed drug test to the best of my knowledge. Edit: I see were the confusion is. It seems some sources are reporting it as two separate cases(deliberately), when it was just two results, that were only 3 days apart. So it was definitely the same case, either way you take that. If it was the B-sample(which he did request) as I suspect, then it was not even 2 separate tests from the same period. Which wouldn't have changed much, it was in his system, the question was at what levels(trace amounts) and how. The B-sample is the second part of the same sample, that the A-sample was taken from(they split them, to rule out contamination at the lab).

What some never mention, is that he passed a test that none of the shaved headed athletes of today, would go near. Passing the hair follicle test, proved that not only was there no long term use(could not have been using it in high doses either, for the performance enhancing effects) but that he hadn't been using anything else, either. So he debunked the steroids claims from twitter conspirators, along with it. That was how the punishment got reduced, from 12months to 6.
 
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Hes good Canelo people will always question his legacy 2 failed drugs tests will do that for you. A bit like Manny was in the past. I want him in with Charlo or Andrade if he is willing to drop down i know he wont fight GGG and I think GGG will call it a day sooner rather than later sadly.
This is true,. Needs to beat GGG again and needs to stop dodging Andrade, he is cherry picking his fights at the moment.

Last test he had was GGG.

Think Charlo in 2 years might be the kink in his armour. Charlo still need to refine his style. Cancelo is a fine tuned machine at the peak of his powers at this moment.
 
This is true,. Needs to beat GGG again and needs to stop dodging Andrade, he is cherry picking his fights at the moment.

Last test he had was GGG.

Think Charlo in 2 years might be the kink in his armour. Charlo still need to refine his style. Cancelo is a fine tuned machine at the peak of his powers at this moment.
Cherry picking his fights? Callum Smith, BJS and Plant. All very decent fighters, all undefeated champions at the weight above GGG, in the space of 12 months. Meanwhile what has GGG done since they fought? A lot of people thought he was lucky to get the Derevyanchenko decision. Canelo is ducking nobody and nobody at 160 to 168 is doing more than Canelo is right now, he's a real throwback fighter.

Every name people mention he should fight, are all waiting around for their money fight instead of fighting each other(risking nothing). The PBC fighters are notoriously over protected and overhyped, Charlo isn't anywhere near Canelo's level. I like BooBoo but he's not either, he'll make it awkward until Canelo works him out. He knocks them both out and a 3rd fight with GGG wont earn him any credit, they'll say he should fight him and then say he was over the hill when Canelo beats him more easily than the second fight.
 
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Cherry picking his fights? Callum Smith, BJS and Plant. All very decent fighters, all undefeated champions at the weight above GGG, in the space of 12 months. Meanwhile what has GGG done since they fought? A lot of people thought he was lucky to get the Derevyanchenko decision. Canelo is ducking nobody and nobody at 160 to 168 is doing more than Canelo is right now, he's a real throwback fighter. They are all waiting around for their money fight instead of fighting each other.
Callum Smith was less than a match, Saunders was decent, and plant was never going to trouble him.

GGG is past his prime no doubt however there are still question marks there, I think he should put those to rest before GGG is over the hill.

Andrade is the test. Why hasn't this fight happened?
 
Callum Smith was less than a match, Saunders was decent, and plant was never going to trouble him.

GGG is past his prime no doubt however there are still question marks there, I think he should put those to rest before GGG is over the hill.

Andrade is the test. Why hasn't this fight happened?
Callum Smith was the top guy at 168lbs, he won the WSB tournament at the weight(picking up the Muhammad Ali Trophy), he smashed Groves into retirement. The USA centric boxing viewers don't rate him because they'd never heard of him(especially the PBC fanboys). Everyone else knew he was a very decent boxer, big at the weight(moved up now) and one of the biggest punchers, not an easy touch for anyone.

I see you're not able to give Canelo any credit by dismissing BJS and Plant like that, so lets just agree to disagree on that.

As for why Canelo hasn't fought Andrade, when that fight was first touted, what had he done himself to deserve the Canelo fight ahead of the above everyone else waiting in line? The win has to be worth something to Canelo in terms of legacy and he can't fight everyone at once. More recently, he has been focussed on the small matter of becoming the first undisputed Super Middleweight in boxing history. I'd like to see Andrade get a chance to fight him but he's not front of the queue, it will be interesting to see what Canelo does next.

My point wasn't that he shouldn't take those fights(he probably will), it was no matter what he does next, someone will find fault with it. GGG will be "over the hill", Charlo "not ready", Andrade "never as good as hyped up to be". You watch, that's exactly the narrative that will be pushed if and when Canelo fights and beats those fighters.
 
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Surely Saul must go down as one of the greats,absolute legend.
The problem Canelo will have is that a bit like Klitschko he's a great fighter in an era without too many other great fighters.

On top of that, the great fighters he's fought all come with asterisks. Mayweather schooled him. A majority of people had GGG beating him both times (especially at the time of the fights), and an older Kovalev had a very short time to prepare after a disappointing performance against Yarde.


He's still almost certainly the current p4p number 1 though. He's still an exceptional boxer. He's still better than everyone currently active within 10lbs of him at the moment. He'll almost certainly have a fantastic legacy with the casual audiences.


I'm sure I'll be corrected on this point very swiftly, but for me he's a great boxer without being one of THE great boxers.
 
Mayweather schooled him.
There's an asterisk on that for Mayweather though, the catchweight and the inexperience of Canelo "too soon, not ready" . In fact there are parallels to be drawn with the reluctance to give them credit from boxing fans.
A majority of people had GGG beating him both times.
Not the second fight they didn't, the majority had Canelo winning that. They were two close fights though that's true.
Kovalev had a very short time to prepare after a disappointing performance against Yarde.
Catchweight too
Correction, I misremembered that, the militant Canelo haters were convinced it was going to be but in the end it was at 175lbs. That's why they had to make the most of the excuses Kovalev gave. He fought Yarde on the 24th August, the Canelo fight was announced 13th September 2019, scheduled for 2nd November. That's around 3 weeks rest before the fight was announced and around 7 weeks from that date to the fight, to prepare. The average training camp is 6 weeks, so it wasn't short notice. More than that, fitness shouldn't have been a problem(more about recovery than losing weight), with the quick turnaround for a seasoned fighter, who knows his body. He cited back to back gruelling training camps as his excuse. Whether he just wasn't up to it and took the fight for the money or he overtrained and got his preparation wrong. Who's fault is that? Having just 2 fights 3 months apart, isn't impossible. Even for a 36year old and that would have been a one off also, it used to be the norm.
...but he had all the physical advantages over Canelo. Even with that, Kovalev probably beats anyone moving up from 160lbs as he did by knocking them out most likely. I don't think someone of Canelo's size has any business up at LHW, Box Nation were on about Cruiserweight, I turned it off at that point.
He'll almost certainly have a fantastic legacy with the casual audiences.
I think it's the casuals who tend to not like him personally. They believe anything they're told about him without checking their facts. GGG was defended for ducking Ward who wanted to fight him, Andrade has wanted the GGG fight for a while but he wants none of that either. He's done very little since fighting Canelo. Meanwhile, they think Canelo is ducking everyone and cherrypicking when his resume blows GGG's away and everyone else's in his weight range. GGG's stock has fallen recently but he had the biggest casual following off the back of the middleweight Mike Tyson moniker.
 
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There's an asterisk on that for Mayweather though, the catchweight and the inexperience of Canelo "too soon, not ready" . In fact there are parallels to be drawn with the reluctance to give them credit from boxing fans.

Not the second fight they didn't, the majority had Canelo winning that. They were two close fights though that's true.

Catchweight too, but he had all the physical advantages over Canelo. Even with that, Kovalev probably beats anyone moving up from 160lbs as he did by knocking them out most likely. I don't think someone of Canelo's size has any business up at LHW, Box Nation were on about Cruiserweight, I turned it off at that point.

I think it's the casuals who tend to not like him personally. They believe anything they're told about him without checking their facts. GGG was defended for ducking Ward who wanted to fight him, Andrade has wanted the GGG fight for a while but he wants none of that either. He's done very little since fighting Canelo. Meanwhile, they think Canelo is ducking everyone and cherrypicking when his resume blows GGG's away and everyone else's in his weight range. GGG's stock has fallen recently but he had the biggest casual following off the back of the middleweight Mike Tyson moniker.

Canelo was outmatched by Mayweather tremendously to the point that I don't think anyone buys the catchweight argument. Plus it was his 44th fight nearly 10 years after debuting.

The majority had GGG winning the 2nd fight. I remember seeing something like over 90% of journalists on the night had it down as a GGG win. And pretty much everybody had GGG winning the first.

I'm not arsed about the cherrypicking debates. I don't hold any of that stuff against Canelo.

I think Canelo is almost certainly the best active boxer going. But I don't think he's one of the all time greats.
 
The majority had GGG winning the 2nd fight. I remember seeing something like over 90% of journalists on the night had it down as a GGG win. And pretty much everybody had GGG winning the first.
Almost as many had it a draw having just looked at the list on reddit, lets not forget GGG had the media fully on his side going into the rematch, it was clear what result they wanted before the fight(I remember the commentary from box nation was atrocious). It's obvious most people were still mad it didn't go the way they wanted it to in the first fight, along with the failed drug test. Lets also not forget that controversy sells for the journalists. It's pretty telling they couldn't create the same frenzy about the second fight's result.

There's no way GGG won the second fight IMO, I had it draw but if anyone edged it, it was Canelo(where the opposite was true for the first fight... both draws for me). In the second fight the compubox stats(which can be misleading since they were counting shots that were slipped in the first fight) showed it was close but Canelo had the edge. Canelo had a 143-116 edge in power shots and landed a higher percentage of what he threw. More than that, he controlled the centre of the ring and dictated the pace of the fight, which took away one of the biggest reasons people scored so many rounds to GGG in the first fight. I found it funny how that reasoning disappeared for them when scoring the second fight(not keeping the same energy).

I had the first fight a draw too as did many others btw. Rounds 1-3 were edgy rounds where Canelo edged it for me(better defence, more power shots), most people had Canelo taking at least 3 of the last 4 rounds(I gave him the last 3, some people gave him the 9th for the punch of the fight in a competitive round). They were more competitive than the middle rounds of the fight but Canelo stiill won them for me and the fan scorecard averages I've seen seem to support what I'm saying about the rounds I gave him. The compubox stats even back that up too for those rounds(Canelo throwing and landing more power shots). GGG won his rounds more convincingly(while Canelo was either conserving energy or hoping GGG would punch him self out for the late rounds) but not a single one of those rounds was worth more than a 10-9. The draw wasn't the problem because it was close, no matter how many fanboys rant and rave otherwise, it was Byrd's card which nobody can begin to defend.

GGG is a good fighter, but he gets more credit than he's due from some too. There's other fights than Canelo out there for him and he can't hide behind "they are avoiding me" excuse anymore. I had him losing to Jacobs and so did many others and many people had him losing to Derevyanchenko(asterisks) as I mentioned earlier but the same people banging on about supposed "robberies" start singing a different tune for those(not interested). Those are shrugged off with comments like: "Nah, I didn't score it that way, so there's no controversy around that result" or "Those happen sometimes, all fighters have those". Clear and blatant double standards.

I don't mind what your opinion is on Canelo overall(you're entitled to it). I just don't like when people try and control the narrative and apply double standards with any fighter who's earned his place at the top. To be fair, I remember behaving similar with Mayweather. There was always some gripe that stuck out about his wins for me. Not fighting Manny at his peak, the Castillo result being near the top of the list. Beside those, I always got the impression he was strategically waiting fighters out(form and age), then there's catchweights(it did affect Canelo but I think the inexperience weighed against him more, he learned a lot in that fight) and telling opponents what size gloves they have to wear to suit him and his fragile hands, all the A side tactics basically. In the end though, you have to give them their dues, they'd hold their own with anyone, with or without those politics in play.
 
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