The Boxing thread

[BoyBlue_1985]

One of the first things I heard when I started boxing training

"Mate if you aint got a chin, you aint gonna win"

 

[conormcfc]

One of the first things I heard when I started boxing training

"Mate if you aint got a chin, you aint gonna win"

Define the word win.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

One of the first things I heard when I started boxing training

"Mate if you aint got a chin, you aint gonna win"

Define the word win.

Well it means win full stop, it just made me laugh when he said it.

The thing with Khan is because he is chinny he will never be a great. Not that he is just chinny its that he gets hit and thinks he is he man and puts his crystal jaw in the firing line.
Can tell golden boy have ploughed some money in to him because he is getting enough chances off of them

 

[Santiago Street]

Garcia found it hard to accustom himself to Khan's speed but only for a couple of rounds. He didn't just land one lucky punch, he knocked Khan down three or four times. Khan might be a favourite in a rematch but not much of one.

Khan won every second of every round till he got caught with the first big shot, at the end of the 3rd round I think?

After that he never got his legs back, which is why he was knocked down a couple more times. The damage was done with that 1 shot.

Khan definitely doesn't help himself though when he wants to get into a war if he gets hurt rather than holding on.

I agree that Khan dominated the opening 3 rounds but in a 12round fight that's no big deal especially considering their relative styles. When you're fighting someone with a significant speed advantage it's always gonna take you a few minutes til you time your shots right.

And getting your legs back, doing the smart thing, buying some time, clinching and spoiling are pre requisites for a guy fighting at world level.

Khan's great for British boxing but for me his best days are behind him. God knows what Golden Boy see in him. Khan v Brook would be in my top5 fight wishlist for 2013 but I don't think Khan fancies it - where would he go if he lost that, he can't fight mediocre lightweights forever.

 

[conormcfc]

Well it means win full stop, it just made me laugh when he said it.

The thing with Khan is because he is chinny he will never be a great. Not that he is just chinny its that he gets hit and thinks he is he man and puts his crystal jaw in the firing line.
Can tell golden boy have ploughed some money in to him because he is getting enough chances off of them

Khan will probably never reach an 'all time great' level I agree.

But I don't think the fact that he is china chinned is the only facet of his game holds him back, there have been fighters with pretty poor chins have reached legendary status in the past. Tommy Hearns wasn't the best at taking a shot from what I've seen and certainly Wladimir Klitschko of the current crop is no Jake LaMotta. But those 2 know/knew when to stand and trade and when not to for the most part and both possessed huge KO power of their own.

I agree that Khan dominated the opening 3 rounds but in a 12round fight that's no big deal especially considering their relative styles. When you're fighting someone with a significant speed advantage it's always gonna take you a few minutes til you time your shots right.

And getting your legs back, doing the smart thing, buying some time, clinching and spoiling are pre requisites for a guy fighting at world level.

Khan's great for British boxing but for me his best days are behind him. God knows what Golden Boy see in him. Khan v Brook would be in my top5 fight wishlist for 2013 but I don't think Khan fancies it - where would he go if he lost that, he can't fight mediocre lightweights forever.

It's a huge tactical flaw on his part. Maybe his new team can sort it, you never know. Freddie Roach isn't exactly a defensive trainer is he, look at how his stable of boxers fight. I'm not sure he was the right fit for Khan with his obvious deficiencies.

I still think Maidana hits harder than Garcia tbh, he just didn't allow open up as much in that fight to allow Maidana to land the big shot.

I'd still back him to beat Brook if they got it on at present I think. Khan will land combos on him all night and I don't think Kell has the power to knock him out, not on the evidence of his last few fights anyway.

 

[bluemc1]

Well it means win full stop, it just made me laugh when he said it.

The thing with Khan is because he is chinny he will never be a great. Not that he is just chinny its that he gets hit and thinks he is he man and puts his crystal jaw in the firing line.
Can tell golden boy have ploughed some money in to him because he is getting enough chances off of them

Khan will probably never reach an 'all time great' level I agree.

But I don't think the fact that he is china chinned is the only facet of his game holds him back, there have been fighters with pretty poor chins have reached legendary status in the past. Tommy Hearns wasn't the best at taking a shot from what I've seen and certainly Wladimir Klitschko of the current crop is no Jake LaMotta. But those 2 know/knew when to stand and trade and when not to for the most part and both possessed huge KO power of their own.

I agree that Khan dominated the opening 3 rounds but in a 12round fight that's no big deal especially considering their relative styles. When you're fighting someone with a significant speed advantage it's always gonna take you a few minutes til you time your shots right.

And getting your legs back, doing the smart thing, buying some time, clinching and spoiling are pre requisites for a guy fighting at world level.

Khan's great for British boxing but for me his best days are behind him. God knows what Golden Boy see in him. Khan v Brook would be in my top5 fight wishlist for 2013 but I don't think Khan fancies it - where would he go if he lost that, he can't fight mediocre lightweights forever.

It's a huge tactical flaw on his part. Maybe his new team can sort it, you never know. Freddie Roach isn't exactly a defensive trainer is he, look at how his stable of boxers fight. I'm not sure he was the right fit for Khan with his obvious deficiencies.

I still think Maidana hits harder than Garcia tbh, he just didn't allow open up as much in that fight to allow Maidana to land the big shot.

I'd still back him to beat Brook if they got it on at present I think. Khan will land combos on him all night and I don't think Kell has the power to knock him out, not on the evidence of his last few fights anyway.

i wouldnt ever back him to beat anyone with that chin, to risky, think its a shame for him as he will usually be superior in most departments to his opponents, dont think he beats Garcia as khan not really getting people out of there early and over 12 rounds he gets caught with a shot he wont recover from

 

[shevtheblue]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

 

[bluemc1]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

agree with a lot of that mate good post but i do think he is chinny, i always remember a very early jab from prescott making his legs do a silly dance

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

agree with a lot of that mate good post but i do think he is chinny, i always remember a very early jab from prescott making his legs do a silly dance

You always see it when he fights the opponent is almost just waiting to land 1 decent shot and open him up. They almost allow Khan to punch them just to come inside and land 1. When prescott beat him everyone thought it was just it was lucky and bad management to put him in with a "banger" but if he was as good as we were all told he was he should of seen him off inside 6 rounds

 

[bluemc1]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

agree with a lot of that mate good post but i do think he is chinny, i always remember a very early jab from prescott making his legs do a silly dance

You always see it when he fights the opponent is almost just waiting to land 1 decent shot and open him up. They almost allow Khan to punch them just to come inside and land 1. When prescott beat him everyone thought it was just it was lucky and bad management to put him in with a "banger" but if he was as good as we were all told he was he should of seen him off inside 6 rounds

another problem for him i think is he not really got one punch KO power so is in range a lot throwing bunches,

 

[LongsightM13]

Willie Limond, a lightweight with a bantamweight's punch — only eight stoppage wins in almost 40 fights — put Khan on his arse and many feel Khan was given a long count that night, should've been a KO loss.
Michael Gomez, back from retirement and his mind and body ravaged by drink and God knows what else, also dropped him.
Prescott only had to cough and Khan was in trouble.
These are a long way from the elite.
Khan's team will look to pad his record with smaller and older men, decent names but on the decline, in order to get another shot. But they know he will always come up short against the very best at their peak

 

[Dirty Harry]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

Some fair comments in there mate, especially that last bit, for me it comes down to Khan's ego, natural 'fight or flight' response, and stupidity.

 

[conormcfc]

Willie Limond, a lightweight with a bantamweight's punch — only eight stoppage wins in almost 40 fights — put Khan on his arse and many feel Khan was given a long count that night, should've been a KO loss.
Michael Gomez, back from retirement and his mind and body ravaged by drink and God knows what else, also dropped him.
Prescott only had to cough and Khan was in trouble.
These are a long way from the elite.
Khan's team will look to pad his record with smaller and older men, decent names but on the decline, in order to get another shot. But they know he will always come up short against the very best at their peak

Marcos Maidana, P4P one of the hardest hitting fighters of this generation, didn't drop him.

You make it seem like he wouldn't be able to go the distance with someone who hits harder than Malignaggi.

 

[shevtheblue]

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

agree with a lot of that mate good post but i do think he is chinny, i always remember a very early jab from prescott making his legs do a silly dance

Yep, but again his head positioning is perfect for the required movement to cause the rocking motion that equals a concussion. The reason they talk about chins is because that is a good point to force your head to make an involuntary movement, just like the temple is I believe. My point is, if he doesn't put his chin and temple at risk then he doesn't get caught. PBF has only really been caught once and that was vs Mosley. He recovered from that for two reasons, 1 is his amazing conditioning and 2 is because his bell has not been rung as many times as other fighters (i presume they take it easy in training but who knows). In my opinion, your brain is a ticket and you can only punch that ticket a certain number of times before it runs out, so the more times you have been hit (hard or not) the less resistance you have to punches. With Khans defence being so poor, he is getting that ticket punched a lot more than someone like PBF or indeed BHOP did.<br /><br />-- Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:00 pm --<br /><br />

I wouldn't call Khan 'chinny' as such, because he has taken shots before and got through it. Part of taking a shot is your conditioning and tbf to the kid his conditioning has always been pretty decent. The problem with his is his head positioning when he fights, his chin isn't tucked in or even down, its almost out there as a homing beacon to be hadoukened. With that in mind, that IS something you can be taught, but whether he is the type of person that will take the teaching on board is another thing. PBF and Ward are both brilliant defensive fighters as was B-HOP, all 3 of these guys have one thing in common and it is how the protect their chin almost into their shoulder and minimise that target, I just can't see Khan doing that consistently enough to become a great.
There's a guy in MMA (sorry to bring that into boxing) called Jorge Gurgel, he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and is one of the best on the ground in the States. He could beat many fighers at his weigh class if he took the fight to the ground but he chooses to standup and not just fight but to get in wars which he nearly always loses. I think Khan is the boxing version, his speed and movement should mean he doesn't get hit but his want for punching wars and to prove something means he will get KTFO.

Some fair comments in there mate, especially that last bit, for me it comes down to Khan's ego, natural 'fight or flight' response, and stupidity.

Exactly, while it's commendable that he doesn't shirk from a fight, he's a boxer not a fighter and his ability to absorb the punches isn't as high as say a Mexican fighters.

 

[conormcfc]

Ricky Burns is running from the Broner fight.

Think Broner has signed to fight Gavin Rees now.

 

[ono]

Willie Limond, a lightweight with a bantamweight's punch — only eight stoppage wins in almost 40 fights — put Khan on his arse and many feel Khan was given a long count that night, should've been a KO loss.
Michael Gomez, back from retirement and his mind and body ravaged by drink and God knows what else, also dropped him.
Prescott only had to cough and Khan was in trouble.
These are a long way from the elite.
Khan's team will look to pad his record with smaller and older men, decent names but on the decline, in order to get another shot. But they know he will always come up short against the very best at their peak

I think that's a bit harsh mate.

Khan's susceptible to shots that hit him high on the top of the head. His 'chin' isn't that bad. Maidana hit him flush on the chin several times, and he also took several flush from Garcia before he was stopped.

As for padding his record....

Maidana, Peterson, Garcia, Judah and Malignaggi, all in the US. Not bad really.

Here's the top 15 at 140 ranked by Fightnews (to be fair, probably a couple of months out of date).

1: Tim Bradley
2. Marcos Maidana
3. Amir Khan
4. Lamont Peterson
5. Erik Morales
6. Lucas Matthysse
7. Humberto Soto
8. Andreas Kotelnik
9. Danny Garcia
10. Zab Judah
11. Mike Alvarado
12. Ajose Olusegun
13. Jessie Vargas
14. Joan Guzman
15. Ashley Theophane
16. Mercito Gesta

He's fought 5 out of the top 10 already, aswell as trying to make fights with both Bradley and Morales - both turned him down.

 

[Santiago Street]

It's a funny list that has Maidana at 2 and Theophane at 15 ffs but I agree with your points re Khan

Full credit to Edgar Hearn for getting Rees a shot at Broner though I think he'll be out of his depth

 

[bluemc1]

It's a funny list that has Maidana at 2 and Theophane at 15 ffs but I agree with your points re Khan

Full credit to Edgar Hearn for getting Rees a shot at Broner though I think he'll be out of his depth

yep agree 100% think it will be like Vargas v Clarke, Cotto v Jennings, Pavlik v Lockett

 

[kippaxwarrior]

Anyone watching Prize Fighter now
This match is a proper tear up

 

[1dart]

Anyone watching Prize Fighter now
This match is a proper tear up

Im watching, its been good so far. Ive sparred 100s of rounds with Mark Thompson from our amateur days so hope he wins, still a mate of mine. That Gaynor looks good mind.