The British Monarchy | Princess of Wales diagnosed with cancer (p396)

[bluemc1]

So things like the Celtic fans banner and chants are the rough and that's acceptable to you?

When I saw the Celtic banners and how thought out they were it just widened my eyes and made me think “ fuckin hell they REALLY do hate us “ but it didn’t bother or anger me

The Liverpool fans I just roll my eyes at as if they were asked after the match why they would be booing they wouldn’t have a clue or just say something they heard big Dave in the pub say like “ why should I pay for them “

 

[bluemc1]

Manchester City are a choice. I can walk away any time and never give them another penny.

But is true that human beings are not rational but are often - too often - driven by emotion. This is precisely how we got Brexit. It's also how certain deeply unpleasant regimes rose to power in the past - I think they called it The Triumph of The Will.

Emotion in public life is not a good thing. It is a tool the ruling class uses to manipulate the suckers - us. Government should (ideally) be based on what is rational and logical. Emotion butters no bread, sells no exports, fails to deliver justice, etc., etc. In short, a good government would be less about flag-waving and more about the delivery of quality public services, effective law and order, and the securing of advantageous treaties and trading arrangements. (As opposed to destroying them for irrational reasons.)

It’s strange after reading this thread people still think the football comparison is a good one

 

[tommy116]

When I saw the Celtic banners and how thought out they were it just widened my eyes and made me think “ fuckin hell they REALLY do hate us “ but it didn’t bother or anger me

The Liverpool fans I just roll my eyes at as if they were asked after the match why they would be booing they wouldn’t have a clue or just say something they heard big Dave in the pub say like “ why should I pay for them “

Better thing to do rather than get angry is ask why they protest like that and why people across the globe were not that bothered at the passing of this queen.

 

[Gremlin]

If the monarchy didn’t want to be abolished I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be, in fact, I believe there is more chance of parliament being abolished than the monarchy.

I asked my friend who was in 1 Para at the time, where his and what he thinks his regiments stance would be if we were in a government vs monarchy scenario. He was very clear, their allegiance is to the queen.

When push comes to shove, that’s who has the power, the commander in chief of the armed forces.

Load of bollocks (and I say that as a former member of the armed forces). We already had that situation in the 17th century and it didn't end well for the monarch.

The monarch is the figurehead that the forces swear allegiance to so that there is no overt political angle to them. In the US they get around that by swearing allegiance to the flag or constitution but it's the same idea. However the forces do what the elected government tells them to do, otherwise you have a military dictatorship that thinks it knows best.

There are arguments for and against a constitutional monarchy but the key word here is 'constitutional' - they do not have absolute power and they are figureheads only. That argument was settled a long time ago (starting with Magna Carta, taking in the Civil War noted above and further check on the monarchs powers in later years). However, they are head of state by implicit consent - if there was enough of a groundswell of opinion against them then eventually one of the political parties would stand on a republican ticket and win, such that the monarchy would be history (literally). Charles knows that as much as anyone and it will be interesting to see if he can do a good a job as his mother in keeping the nation on side. Although it also requires a viable alternative and, with trust in politicians pretty low at the moment then there probably isn't a great deal of appetite for swapping one for the other right now.

 

[bluemc1]

Better thing to do rather than get angry is ask why they protest like that and why people across the globe were not that bothered at the passing of this queen.

I don’t need to ask them, I myself was not bothered by the passing of the Queen

 

[threespires]

So things like the Celtic fans banner and chants are the rough and that's acceptable to you?

Think Voltaire (?) got it about right, "I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it". That Celtic banner was infantile and tasteless for many but start censoring stuff like that and we are on a very slippy slope imo.

 

[BrianW]

It’s strange after reading this thread people still think the football comparison is a good one

It's the irrational, emotional issue. It isn't rational to enjoy watching 22 men kick a ball around, but we have an emotional attachment to City, just as many do to the monarchy. The difference is, City are not part of the state.

Similarly, people have emotional attachments to old steam engines, sailing ships, church architecture and all sorts of obscure things. We are not pure creatures of logic and rationality.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I feel the same. Why? Because I was raised in the shadow of Maine Road. Because I love the spectacle of the game. Because my earliest heroes were Doyle and Tueart and Barnes. Because I walked down Claremont Road with my grandad and a sea of blue. What is the difference? The players and my team produce something - spectacle, entertainment, rivalry, tribalism, heroism and an affinity with my ancestors, all of whom were blue. I mean no disrespect to the Queen but I simply do not know what she did.

I understand all that and agree entirely.
Im just making the point that many have a similar deep connection with the Monarchy. Many of those will probably never understand yours, mine and many thousands of others deep connection to City.

 

[tommy116]

I don’t need to ask them, I myself was not bothered by the passing of the Queen

Ok, issue here i think is that you have two sides looking at this from two very different angles. One side see's an old lady who has served her country and feel for her and her family the other side just sees what she represents and all what that institution has done across the globe.

 

[Pedestrian]

If the monarchy didn’t want to be abolished I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be, in fact, I believe there is more chance of parliament being abolished than the monarchy.

I asked my friend who was in 1 Para at the time, where his and what he thinks his regiments stance would be if we were in a government vs monarchy scenario. He was very clear, their allegiance is to the queen.

When push comes to shove, that’s who has the power, the commander in chief of the armed forces.

I was in 2para. I think it’s pathetic that folk bend the knee and the royal family is only negative for me. The courts have the power. The commander of the armed forces is a political stooge so doesn’t really have that much authority.