The Conservative Party

[Rascal]

Is your proposal to have the government own ALL the output and ALL the jobs? And why would you favour the political elite over the capitalist elite?

The money tree does not exist, it’s just borrowing. And it needs to be paid back.

Why would you think I favour a political elite?

I have said countless times I am a Democratic Socialist.

The magic money tree is not borrowed money, it is created money. You get economic growth from the created money, economic growth nullifies the effect of the money created.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Has nobody noticed Sunak is felling a money forest and getting roundly congratulated in a media who unanimously criticised previous Labour oppositions who proposed spending a fraction of what he has spent?

 

[Vic]

I never said the sanctions have no impact but the sanctions aren’t the main reason why the country is so poor.

Most other western countries do trade with Cuba and I don’t believe blaming it all on the US washes.

Even if it did, they’re an undemocratic country that brought sanctions on themselves when they shot down two passenger planes.

Batista.

 

[Vic]

Lower taxes. That improves my and my families life and millions of others.

What lower taxes? Lower direct taxes, increased indirect taxes.

 

[blue cigar]

Has nobody noticed Sunak is felling a money forest and getting roundly congratulated in a media who unanimously criticised previous Labour oppositions who proposed spending a fraction of what he has spent?

This will simply pass most people by because it won't appear or be questioned in the media.
Money is always always found for wars, this is a much more worthy cause and money has been found. In other words, the magic money tree is there for any govt but only one political party was derided? People are easily led.

 

[carlosthejackal]

Has nobody noticed Sunak is felling a money forest and getting roundly congratulated in a media who unanimously criticised previous Labour oppositions who proposed spending a fraction of what he has spent?

Ten years of decimating the health service , that went well .

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

The growth of the private sector has made my working class family earn a middle class living. Not just me, my parents and grand parents (before they retired).

That’s the biggest policy of all, from the last 50 years and it’s not just my family, the private market lifts millions out of poverty across the world, where socialist states like Cuba and Venezuela keep their population in it.

The regression of social conservatism, including that perpetuated by the so-called Conservative Party as well, has degenerated the social fabric of the nation.

Of course, some socialist policy is needed and is appropriate in particular industries, such as health, rail, mail and possibly utilities but socialism as an ideology to be poured out across the board in all industries, has shown time and time and time again that it simply doesn’t work.

This is what socialism gets you-

68% of people on Universal Credit are in full time employment. Thats what Capitalism gets you.

 

[Ban-jani]

68% of people on Universal Credit are in full time employment. Thats what Capitalism gets you.

Do you have a link to that?

How many of those people work part time?

How many have partners that work?

I really don’t think, given the year we’ve had, Universal Credit statistics are an accurate way of judging things now.

The number of people on Universal Credit was 5.7 million on 8 October 2020, up 2% on 10 September 2020. There has been a 90% (2.7 million) increase in the number of people on Universal Creditfrom 3 million on 12 March 2020, the last count date before the coronavirus pandemic.

Nevertheless, if you took Universal Credit i
Off everyone that claimed it who worked, their income vs the cost of living would still be greater than that of someone living in Cuba.

Our poorest would be middle class there.

Because there are issues with capitalism, it doesn’t mean socialism is the answer.

Let’s play a game...Can you name a socialist country, a country that has socialism as a general ideology across all industries, where the general population is more prosperous than European or North American countries... and can you name one that’s at least as democratic?

I will let you choose any throughout history.

 

[metalblue]

Why would you think I favour a political elite?

I have said countless times I am a Democratic Socialist.

The magic money tree is not borrowed money, it is created money. You get economic growth from the created money, economic growth nullifies the effect of the money created.

Let’s start with your magic money tree. You’re wrong. The way governments get money is by selling bonds/gilts to investors. In return for said investors cash the government pledges to pay an interest rate. The more you borrow the more likely your interest rate will increase. Both the coupon value and principal are in native currency and so said investors will hedge this risk (in our case a US investor would look to sell GBP and buy USD, particularly if they saw volatility in that). This puts downward FX rate pressure on your currency making exports more expensive. And you need exports to attract new money into an economy. Now over time governments gradually increase money supply and this creates an inflationary effect, the key is to keep this money creation slow enough that the economy doesn’t overheat and buyers of government debt believe in your policy to prevent costly debt (if you can sell it at all). Just printing a trillion £ will result in no buyers of government debt, a need to print more money to pay the bills and hyper-inflation. Now the government does have effectively an overdraft with the BOE that it can use for short term borrowing of its own money to prevent spikes in its gilt costs and that was increased during COVID however the money still needs to be borrowed and it was done so last year. So there is no magic money tree and until socialist realise this and stop being so naive of the world around them just because they don’t like it.

Now onto democratic socialism. I’m genuinely interested in how you see this working. I understand the concept of workers owning the companies they work “for”, and don’t have any issue with that concept.

We have two fundamental items at play here. The first is the workers need paying and the second is the workers need to produce something that people will buy (and critically we can export). However we know that not all companies make a profit and this is especially true at the outset. So as your system values jobs over profit it can only be assumed that all profit is collected and distributed via a national payroll? Who decides what companies are viable? I might decide to setup a company making umbrellas made from tracing paper and employee 10000 people on my first day and as you value jobs over profit you’ll support me right? Even thou I’ll never make a profit in a million years because it’s a shit product. On top of this you have government buying up all the remaining labour force to provide a fire service, healthcare, police, teachers, bin collections, lifeboats, and the such as this is public service there will be no profit (nor should there be) and that will get paid for from said profit? Who decides how many teachers or doctors we need? If we aren’t making enough profit to pay everyone how do we fix that problem? Are we all getting paid the same? Who decides how much we get paid?

Do we all live in houses that look the same (drab concrete blocks) that cost the same and drive trabants that cost the same by chance in this system?

 

[metalblue]

68% of people on Universal Credit are in full time employment. Thats what Capitalism gets you.

I don’t get this mate. If we have a minimum wage and those in full time work need universal credit then isn’t that the government admitting minimum wage isn’t enough? It would seem a strange thing to do. But universal credit does seem like it’s been a problem child since birth so nothing would surprise me

The concept of part time work being topped up is a good thing but I do disagree with the tax payer footing the bill for low pay of full time employment if that is the case.