The Conservative Party

At this stage if it's 20k deaths, 30k, 100k... It really doesn't matter that much because it's just a tragically high number either way.

The time to blame people comes afterwards. Angela Merkel was the best thing since sliced bread 10 months ago but now Germany is seeing the worst of the pandemic and just like us they knew it was coming.

I don't want to exempt the government but I can't believe Labour nor any other would of acted differently. Labour has 99% supported every single thing so far in the order that it has happened.

The people to attack are the alternate voices, the ones denying that this is even happening and asking for actions that would inevitably kill people. I don't think anyone in the government has taken that view.

I wouldn’t say 99% with Labour, they’ve called for measures several times sooner than the government has put them in.There’d have been a few very key differences as well, in particular the running of track and trace that could have made a huge difference.

That’s partly why Johnson is trying to push the “captain hindsight” narrative - it’s in the hope that people aren’t paying attention to parliament and don’t realise it’s projection.

It’s working for a fair few too.
 
Even if they’re only to blame for say 10,000 additional deaths that would equate to them being the most criminally irresponsible government since millions were sent to their deaths in WW1 as cannon fodder.
What about the Spanish Flu or Hong Kong flu pandemics?

The government barely introduced restrictions at all and even the latter killed 80,000 in the late 60’s, City were winning the league with a pitch invasion at St James’s Park whilst it went on!
 
What about the Spanish Flu or Hong Kong flu pandemics?

The government barely introduced restrictions at all and even the latter killed 80,000 in the late 60’s, City were winning the league with a pitch invasion at St James’s Park whilst it went on!
Understanding of epidemiology has moved on a lot since 1918 and even since 1969 meaning those in authority have much better advice and hence are more culpable when they get it wrong.
 
What about the Spanish Flu or Hong Kong flu pandemics?

The government barely introduced restrictions at all and even the latter killed 80,000 in the late 60’s, City were winning the league with a pitch invasion at St James’s Park whilst it went on!
No shit ! I was on the pitch at Newcastle, must have been the 40 plus fags that helped.
 
Understanding of epidemiology has moved on a lot since 1918 and even since 1969 meaning those in authority have much better advice and hence are more culpable when they get it wrong.
They weren’t cave men in 1969 though, they knew full well from the Spanish Flu what was needed.
 
I don't want to exempt the government but I can't believe Labour nor any other would of acted differently. Labour has 99% supported every single thing so far in the order that it has happened.
They've at times asked for action to be taken sooner. So have members of SAGE, and others. There are Tories who are very critical of Boris' handling in the first year. As stated in this forum, Tory MP's like Danny Finkelstein are on record as saying that it is in his nature to 'over-estimate' and think positively, and also that his political style is to leave a decision until the last possible moment. The criticism is that this is great in many scenarios, but very undesirable when dealing with a situation that requires foresight, and is best contained by pro-active and prompt measures, and a pandemic is the perfect example.

I've backed down on my criticism of him in the last week or so. Last year was a disaster. Constantly giving in to deniers and appeasers, constantly last to act and found to have failed to use advance warnings to prepare, and furthermore being secretive and costing the country by favouring personal contacts for procurement and solutions. Also being unfortunately mealy mouthed and equivocal in delivering important messages.

I think reality has set in for him. In almost every regard, he has nowhere else to go now. There are good people around him who can help, and that's how things will go. I don't expect him to move very much from a moderately firm stance in favour of safety first on most of the issues now facing us.

What really hurts is how uncreative and mindless our overall response has been. In particular with unsafe work spaces. Again, Boris is last on the list for people reknown for their attention to detail, or creative, novel solutions. I don't know Labour would have done better but it's hard to imagine a more blunt series of measures than we have seen. Because they are so blunt, we have a situation where major companies can call people in to work who don't need to be on site. Social distancing and other measures are poorly implemented are routinely dismissed as optional by managers. Meanwhile, vulnerable people without bubbles are trapped. Schoolkids, particularly older girls, are now getting mental health problems.

Blunt and often ineffective measures remain. The lack of flexibility in thinking is demonstrated in the schools debate. It's like the only two options are 'open' or 'shut'. If Boris and others in government and SAGE could escape that inflexible mindset, others closer to the educational establishments could surely arrive at intermediate, novel measures that helped tackle the major problems. Half classes. One day a week. Pupil testing. Safer environments. Whatever.

But we're looking at Boris not even discussing the issue until the data arrives. Therefore, nothing like that can be discussed. He'll just give the binary thumbs up or thumbs down, and everyone will scramble to implement. We're wasting time and opportunities to deal with this more effectively and smarter because of this way of working.l

Part of the problem is this constant political noise. Let's just say, you won't know what could have been achieved constructively, if the attention is on firefighting, problems coming from chopping and changing and failing to address long standing issues conclusively. They say this is a thing, where people in start to lose the ability to imagine another timeline. Unfortunately, even those close to Boris know this is uncomfortably close to his preferred political style. 'We're all in Boris's world now', one advisor was quoted as saying excitedly, at the start of the year.

That is not a good thing. We need freedom from fear and constant barages of dramatic developments. They are required so that society's inate capabilities for creativity, hope and mutual appreciation and care can flourish. That side of things will play a large part in determining clinical outcomes for COVID sufferers and others with regard to the mental health of our citizens during and after lockdown.
 
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