The Conservative Party

[Mr Kobayashi]

You did like the post though. Alongside the rogues gallery of other posters on this forum.

The post was actually a complete straw man of what I’d posted, which was more of a general view of campus life, rather than a survey conducted, which polled every single student, that claimed there isn’t a single right wing student on campus, I simply didn’t say that.

It is academic I think and she did her undergraduate in history, which involved a module on politics.

But I want to move away from personal stuff as people find it an apt target in the debate, whilst disingenuously changing the story...

It is entirely possible to hold a view that doesn’t align with the LGBT movement, whilst treating those people with complete respect.

Well if you’ve seen my posts, whilst they lasted, on the trans issue, you’ll know my view. That these people should be treated with compassion and patience and given all the support they need, but I think it does a disservice to them to encourage their gender dysphoria as anything other than a mental condition in wider culture.

There’s no “phobia” or hatred or bigotry involved in that view, I am concerned for the lives ruined through depression, which goes hand in hand with gender dysphoria. And you know I believe there are only two genders.

This is a personal view but my view on society politically is that these things should of course be perfectly legal and nobody should be persecuted, in a free society that prides itself on a variety of views.

It is none of the states business to stop people being trans and sexual preference is none of my business on a personal level.

I've just read back Jma's post and he wasn't actually insulting your sister if you read it correctly.

I think you are getting into selective science here now. I don't expect that you can reconcile this with your Christian beliefs, but biological sex in animals is itself an evolutionary adaptation. Gender is also not the same as sex, it is how you present and how people treat you in relation to gender norms.

I'm not going to get into this linguistic semantics, it's an absurd point. It's a bit like trying to claim Palestine supporting cranks can't be antisemitic because they like the Palestines.

Transexualism isn't a mental health disorder, dysphoria is a psychological experience but it's not something that is something is something that you can discourage and make go away in the way you imagine. I've met many trans people from different backgrounds and they all have a common theme of experiencing a feeling that in they were in the wrong body from around 4 or 5.

Transgender no longer recognised as 'disorder' by WHO - BBC News

The World Health Organization has amended its classification of transgender health issues.

www.google.com

I've never thought that you want to make trans people illegal. But this kind of position seems to be based out of ignorance and fixed in your own world views, and I don't think it is particularly helpful to people when it gets brought up as a new kind of section 28.

 

[jma]

And here we go, the left wing way, get personal and start calling people dumb. I know your snide comment about our kid is to try and get an angry reaction from me but you’ve just outed yourself as the idiot.

I didn’t say she claims there are no conservatives, I said she’d a) never met one and b) never heard an opinion from one

So no, you’re the dumb one, for failing to read and process basic English.

Can we also distinguish the fact that being a conservative or having those views doesn’t automatically mean you’re a Tory? I am and I haven’t voted for them in the last two times of asking.

I know you like to play identity politics and shove everyone in to boxes but it’s not accurate.

To be clear, you told a story about your sister designed to illustrate a point.

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

 

[Ban-jani]

I have absolutely no idea, I noticed after I posted to but couldn’t fix it!

Its covered already in terms of legislation around free speech, I don’t see that as the same as state intervention as that is then judged by the courts, not MPs.

Universities should be making the decisions, not the government or activist student unions.

I agreed with the previous universities secretary that didn’t want to be overzealous with the regulations in this space. Greening said similar too.

I too don’t want the government having an overzealous influence either, free ideas should be able to grow in our education system, I just don’t think it can’t hurt to ensure the universities aren’t becoming too authoritative with one side of the argument, I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out.

You may be proven right or it may prove it doesn’t make that much difference, other than it slightly improving open dialogue.

 

[Ban-jani]

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

I was talking about her experience there and I clearly meant right wing views weren’t being made, from lecturers, speakers, students etc. You can disbelieve it all you want but you don’t go to university and you have no idea what the university is like. You’re presuming whereas I am taking her objective view, as she agrees with your politics and not

Ahh the accusation of “rabbit hole”.

What a boring remark, it’s used to paint conservative views as extreme and attribute us to Trump’s extremists.

Pathetic.

 

[meltonblue]

I too don’t want the government having an overzealous influence either, free ideas should be able to grow in our education system, I just don’t think it can’t hurt to ensure the universities aren’t becoming too authoritative with one side of the argument, I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out.

You may be proven right or it may prove it doesn’t make that much difference, other than it slightly improving open dialogue.

And that’s the nub of it, like i said yesterday. Who’s more likely to be authoritative with one side of the debate - universities that exist for intellectual advancement or a political party that exists to get their views as widely accepted as possible in order to either get in to, or remain in, government.

 

[jma]

I was talking about her experience there and I clearly meant right wing views weren’t being made, from lecturers, speakers, students etc. You can disbelieve it all you want but you don’t go to university and you have no idea what the university is like. You’re presuming whereas I am taking her objective view, as she agrees with your politics and not

Ahh the accusation of “rabbit hole”.

What a boring remark, it’s used to paint conservative views as extreme and attribute us to Trump’s extremists.

Pathetic.

When your rhetoric is about the existential danger of "the radical left" and peppered with talk of "identity politics", stuff that the average person in the street has no contact with or interest in, cos they are irrelevant to our lives , then don't complain when you get compared to the other nutyy groups that spout such phrases.

As for your university story, if you can find any other poster on here who believes it and is willing to paint your sister is daft enough to think there aren't right wing students or not to understand that such views are, and always have been, a minority on almost every campus, then... Good luck.

My brother never met anyone Welsh at university but I'm not on here painting him as an idiot who believes that the Welsh are deliberately excluded from campus, that leeks and daffodils were banned or that there wasn't any Welsh people there because he didn't know any.

Your example/story was ludicrous and so is your faux outrage at this being pointed out.

 

[Rascal]

To be clear, you told a story about your sister designed to illustrate a point.

It is either disingenuous or unbelievably naive. When this is pointed out you react with horror that someone refers to this fairy tale, that you inserted in the conversation.

If you are honestly claiming that a member of your family believes that they are at a university where "there are zero right wing views, no students, no lecturers, no speakers, nothing" then it is clearly you that is denigrating your family member as you are apportioning to them an utterly ludicrous belief that anyone with an ounce of sense knows in laughable and untrue.

Of course, you also know that such a claim about any university is nonsense but you choose to present it as evidence anyway as an example of your 'argument' then get all uppity when the ridiculousness of it is pointed out.

The rest of your pish about identity politics just proves how far down the rabbit hole you are on this.

At first I thought it was just me who thought he had gone down seriously strange rabbit holes.

Obviously not, he used to be a decent lad with reasonable views, since his Damascene conversion into Christian Evangelicalism he has become a fucking neo-con fruitcake who would be quite at home with the fruit loops of the American religious right.

 

[KPXBLN]

The Tories are liberal, very much so. What conservative social policies have they introduced since 2010?H

How are you defining conservative?

 

[Ban-jani]

I've just read back Jma's post and he wasn't actually insulting your sister if you read it correctly.

I think you are getting into selective science here now. I don't expect that you can reconcile this with your Christian beliefs, but biological sex in animals is itself an evolutionary adaptation. Gender is also not the same as sex, it is how you present and how people treat you in relation to gender norms.

I'm not going to get into this linguistic semantics, it's an absurd point. It's a bit like trying to claim Palestine supporting cranks can't be antisemitic because they like the Palestines.

Transexualism isn't a mental health disorder, dysphoria is a psychological experience but it's not something that is something is something that you can discourage and make go away in the way you imagine. I've met many trans people from different backgrounds and they all have a common theme of feeling that in the wrong body that they experienced from around 4 or 5.

Transgender no longer recognised as 'disorder' by WHO - BBC News

The World Health Organization has amended its classification of transgender health issues.

www.google.com

I've never thought that you want to make trans people illegal. But this kind of position seems to be based out of ignorance and fixed in your own world views, and I don't think it is particularly helpful to people when it gets brought up as a new kind of section 28.

Regarding the evolution point, human evolution has developed lots of different dysphoria’s and mental conditions, most of them aren’t mainstream and are rightfully dismissed.

We’re never going to agree on this and all that will come of it is I’ll be banned from left wing Bluemoon.

I did say condition and not disorder, although I think there is a significant difference between different trans people’s views of themselves and the whole movement. Gender dysphoria is different from gender identity disorder.

I have seen interviews with trans people who know and say they’re not a woman but they want to live like one. Others actually think they are and their outside anatomy is wrong. I think there’s a difference that shouldn’t be ignored there.

You mention trans people you have met (see personal examples are effective) as being this way since age 5/6 but the majority of children who suffer from gender dysphoria change their minds, later in life and that’s why a section 28 type bill, solely focused on children, I think is very important.

The school in Brighton promoting this to incredibly impressionable 5 year olds are committing child abuse imo.

I am happy to meet you in the middle and keep this to adults.

 

[Ban-jani]

At first I thought it was just me who thought he had gone down seriously strange rabbit holes.

Obviously not, he used to be a decent lad with reasonable views, since his Damascene conversion into Christian Evangelicalism he has become a fucking neo-con fruitcake who would be quite at home with the fruit loops of the American religious right.

I thought I’m on ignore comrade?

Youre a communist, you don’t have a right to look down your nose at me.

I am Church of England, not Evangelical, for the 5th time now.

You accused me of going down a rabbit hole because I stated we should improve our asylum process and take more. Because you didn’t understand my point.

That is your problem, not mine.