The Conservative Party

They do that now, they do not do that now - explain

Yes, they pay consumption taxes same as everyone else, but they are adept at avoiding income taxes. So shift the lion’s share of the burden from income taxes to consumption taxes, because for those who have money consumption taxes are harder to avoid.

If you actually cut income taxes for those that pay them whilst increasing consumption taxes for all, you can make the overall burden neutral for those who cannot avoid income taxes, and you simultaneously increase tax revenues from those who can.
 
Gosh, four Yorkshiremen territory...

If you had to save for years for a deposit on a house you must have been either very badly paid, wanted something more than a 2-up 2-down terrace, or not been very good at saving.

1970:
Average yearly wage: £1,204
Average house price: £4,690
The average house cost 3.89 x the average yearly salary.

2019:
Average yearly wage: £26,208
Average house price: £234,853
The average house costs 8.96 x the average yearly salary.
Very selective with your starting point of 1970. We bought our house in 1973, £15 000, 3 bed bungalow in Licolnshire where the houses were the cheapest in the country. . You could only get a mortgage of 3 times your annual salary and we only just afforded that.
 
If it was that difficult in the 70s (saving £300 for a deposit on a terrace house in Manchester, maybe 20 times weekly pay) we wouldn't have had the rise in home ownership that means many over-70s are already enjoying the inheritance from their parents. Tax the rich, however old they are.
I’m not having that many over 70s my parents included their parents died a lot sooner my dads died in the 1970s they had fuck all, the over 70s knew how to save and go without, they may have money tied up in their house now and that’s the only thing they have of worth. I’m 52 if they live for another ten years (hopefully longer) then I’ll get about £100k which I’ll use as an investment for my daughter, in fact the youngster now who can’t leave home will be far richer than I could ever be by the time their parents die because the house prices will be leaving kids of today huge amounts of inheritance. Pensioners have paid into the system and are reaping the rewards from doing so and going without to make their retirement easier, now you want to take money off them, this will only encourage people not to save for the future because why should they?
 
Yes I’m sure 44years for men 39years for women, anyone over the age of 71yrs may have left school at 15yrs, paid 16 percent interest rate on there first home, during 1970 while wages were low if that wasn’t bad enough the money pinching MP’s want to make them pay again.

Most people on here are young I think but now opportunities are a lot less. That’s what has changed the divide between rich and poor is even greater than it was before, someone earlier said spend your money and enjoy it
From the gov.uk website.

To get the full basic State Pension you need a total of 30 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions or credits. This means you were either:

If you have fewer than 30 qualifying years, your basic State Pension will be less than £137.60 per week but you might be able to top up by paying voluntary National Insurance contributions.

This came into force following the Pensions Act 2008. At the time, I had taken early retirement 2 years earlier from the Revenue, and had to "sign on" to ensure my NIC credits were paid to get a full state pension. When the Act came in I confirmed this with the Pension Service, and ,as I had over 30 years contributions, was able to "sign off".
 
There is no easy answer to this, and as much as I despise Johnson, he has to be given some credit for trying to find a solution. A solution that will no doubt have some section of society up in arms.

The ideal of the Welfare state was that it was a system that worked from cradle to grave, which was a noble ideal that has been eroded since the 1970s by successive Governments of all hues. There is so much interlinked with this it is a minefield. The destruction of the Social housing base which encouraged people to buy their own homes led to a housing price boom and many did benefit from that. Life became about personal responsibility rather than collective responsibility. Older people with their own homes had more equity as a result, which meant in effect that pensions could be lower. The UK has one of the lowest pension rates in Europe, so older people can be asset rich and cash poor. When we had Social housing people would be asset poor and cash richer. The obvious way to raise money for Social Care therefore is taxing asset wealth. People who have become asset rich, have done so because society has provided the conditions for them to become asset rich so I would argue it is only fair that those who are asset rich bare the greater burden.

In my idealistic world Social Care would be a branch of the NHS and free at the point of use, that though would mean nationalising Care homes, setting a minimum standard of care and removing the profit motive from Social Care. If pensions were payed at a rate that was greater they could be used as basically bed and board for a Care Home. That way those who have saved will be able to leave an inheritance, those who were unable to save will still receive Social Care. This would paid for by increasing income tax, the state spend is currently one of the lowest in the Western world and by increasing the spend by a few % of GDP raised by tax rises this could be achieved. I am sure people would pay an extra couple of pence income tax if they knew that any future Social Care would be provided free at the point of use. Although I am not so daft to think that many would be against this because RW think tanks like the TPA would be aghast at the thought of people actually contributing to society due to there infatuation with individual responsibility. What good is individual responsibility though if you are struck down with dementia and can no longer be responsible, if you had paid those extra couple of pennies income tax you would not have to worry and you would not be a burden on anyone, you would be entitled to Social Care until the grave.
 
Very selective with your starting point of 1970. We bought our house in 1973, £15 000, 3 bed bungalow in Licolnshire where the houses were the cheapest in the country. . You could only get a mortgage of 3 times your annual salary and we only just afforded that.
I see what you mean. I settled for a £3,000 terrace house in Rusholme.
 
There is no easy answer to this, and as much as I despise Johnson, he has to be given some credit for trying to find a solution. A solution that will no doubt have some section of society up in arms.

The ideal of the Welfare state was that it was a system that worked from cradle to grave, which was a noble ideal that has been eroded since the 1970s by successive Governments of all hues. There is so much interlinked with this it is a minefield. The destruction of the Social housing base which encouraged people to buy their own homes led to a housing price boom and many did benefit from that. Life became about personal responsibility rather than collective responsibility. Older people with their own homes had more equity as a result, which meant in effect that pensions could be lower. The UK has one of the lowest pension rates in Europe, so older people can be asset rich and cash poor. When we had Social housing people would be asset poor and cash richer. The obvious way to raise money for Social Care therefore is taxing asset wealth. People who have become asset rich, have done so because society has provided the conditions for them to become asset rich so I would argue it is only fair that those who are asset rich bare the greater burden.

In my idealistic world Social Care would be a branch of the NHS and free at the point of use, that though would mean nationalising Care homes, setting a minimum standard of care and removing the profit motive from Social Care. If pensions were payed at a rate that was greater they could be used as basically bed and board for a Care Home. That way those who have saved will be able to leave an inheritance, those who were unable to save will still receive Social Care. This would paid for by increasing income tax, the state spend is currently one of the lowest in the Western world and by increasing the spend by a few % of GDP raised by tax rises this could be achieved. I am sure people would pay an extra couple of pence income tax if they knew that any future Social Care would be provided free at the point of use. Although I am not so daft to think that many would be against this because RW think tanks like the TPA would be aghast at the thought of people actually contributing to society due to there infatuation with individual responsibility. What good is individual responsibility though if you are struck down with dementia and can no longer be responsible, if you had paid those extra couple of pennies income tax you would not have to worry and you would not be a burden on anyone, you would be entitled to Social Care until the grave.
A great idea Rascal which will not be adopted by the Nasty Party. The poor have to be seen to pay their ‘fair’ share. We already have a system which pays for cancer treatment but not dementia. They don’t pay for dementia because it usually happens when you are old.

I say again the reasons for it to be a NI contribution is so that richer people can keep their homes and savings by putting a cap on how much you will have to pay and to ensure poorer people pay.
 
I’m not having that many over 70s my parents included their parents died a lot sooner my dads died in the 1970s they had fuck all, the over 70s knew how to save and go without, they may have money tied up in their house now and that’s the only thing they have of worth. I’m 52 if they live for another ten years (hopefully longer) then I’ll get about £100k which I’ll use as an investment for my daughter, in fact the youngster now who can’t leave home will be far richer than I could ever be by the time their parents die because the house prices will be leaving kids of today huge amounts of inheritance. Pensioners have paid into the system and are reaping the rewards from doing so and going without to make their retirement easier, now you want to take money off them, this will only encourage people not to save for the future because why should they?
I want to take money off anyone that can afford it and that includes lots of older people.

"Pensioner poverty" plummeted under Labour 1997-2010 but it's creeping up again under the Tories.
 

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