The Conservative Party

The Future’s Blue! said:
I read a few pieces where GPs were getting older while the young ones weren’t being paid a decent wage to keep the NHS going.

Just like the problem with the Justice system, those that are supposedly there to protect are left on less than minimal wage, and expenses.
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GP's do not work for the NHS, they are usually employees or contractors of private businesses who own and run the GP surgery, the NHS contracts these companies to provide GP services. My GP surgery is owned by two GP's but they're only in for 2 days a week so appointments are scarce and it's usually left to the trainees or locums who come and go every month. It's no wonder that they wanted to keep phone consultations during COVID for as long as they could because it made their life a dream.

This type of healthcare is facing the exact same issues that for example the dental sector is facing. At the moment you'd say there is a shortage of NHS dental appointments but it isn't because there is a shortage of dentists. If you owned a dental practice then why would you even bother to take on NHS contracts/patients when you can earn treble that charging people for private treatment, that's what's happening.

Would you go through 5-7 years of medical school and then choose to go onto a low salary compared to what you could earn? Doctors can earn money all over the place, they might be contracted to help in hospitals or maybe they'll provide telephone consultations for private insurance patients. This is why your GP is probably only in the surgery a couple of times a week like mine, it's because they're busy coining it in elsewhere the rest of the week.

The idea that we should just pay even more money into this system is completely mad. We could ban private GP's and bring it all under a nationalised umbrella but good luck telling GP's that they can no longer earn six figure incomes and now they have to go onto the frozen NHS salary banding... Then you'll have a recruitment problem.
 
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inbetween said:
GP's do not work for the NHS, they are usually employees or contractors of private businesses who own and run the GP surgery, the NHS contracts these companies to provide GP services. My GP surgery is owned by two GP's but they're only in for 2 days a week so appointments are scarce and it's usually left to the trainees or locums who come and go every month. It's no wonder that they wanted to keep phone consultations during COVID for as long as they could because it made their life a dream.

This type of healthcare is facing the exact same issues that for example the dental sector is facing. At the moment you'd say there is a shortage of NHS dental appointments but it isn't because there is a shortage of dentists. If you owned a dental practice then why would you even bother to take on NHS contracts/patients when you can earn treble that charging people for private treatment, that's what's happening.

Would you go through 5-7 years of medical school and then choose to go onto a low salary compared to what you could earn? Doctors can earn money all over the place, they might be contracted to help in hospitals or maybe they'll provide telephone consultations for private insurance patients. This is why your GP is probably only in the surgery a couple of times a week like mine, it's because they're busy coining it in elsewhere the rest of the week.

The idea that we should just pay even more money into this system is completely mad. We could ban private GP's and bring it all under a nationalised umbrella but good luck telling GP's that they can no longer earn six figure incomes and now they have to go onto the frozen NHS salary banding... Then you'll have a recruitment problem.
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Not quite true. Some groups of GP surgeries have been sold off to firms and are as you have stated, others are still NHS although, I guess, these are in the process of being sold off as well.
 
Fred_Quimby said:
Not quite true. Some groups of GP surgeries have been sold off to firms and are as you have stated, others are still NHS although, I guess, these are in the process of being sold off as well.
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Is it not true? GP's have always worked for themselves, they contract their services to the NHS and therefore come under a sort of hybrid between an employee and contractor. Some GP's start partnerships to contract services from a premises and this is your GP surgery. Labour opened the door for private companies to also get the opportunity to run these services 15 years ago.

Either way nothing is being sold off, it's just not true that GP's are somehow being sold off because the fact is they were never publicly available to sell. The entire system at this level is a moneymaking scheme and services are offered by whatever pays the most. This is both the fault of the government for allowing it and the doctors who are happily profiting from it.

It's no different to dentistry, dentists are very happily charging you treble for private work and most aren't going to switch to offering more NHS appointments because of the simple fact that it pays less. The answer to this cannot be well let's give the NHS more money to pay dentists even more because all you get out of that are richer dentists. The same applies to GP's because established GP's can easily earn six figure incomes, how can anyone argue that they're not paid enough?
 
inbetween said:
Is it not true? GP's have always worked for themselves, they contract their services to the NHS and therefore come under a sort of hybrid between an employee and contractor. Some GP's start partnerships to contract services from a premises and this is your GP surgery. Labour opened the door for private companies to also get the opportunity to run these services 15 years ago.

Either way nothing is being sold off, it's just not true that GP's are somehow being sold off because the fact is they were never publicly available to sell. The entire system at this level is a moneymaking scheme and services are offered by whatever pays the most. This is both the fault of the government for allowing it and the doctors who are happily profiting from it.

It's no different to dentistry, dentists are very happily charging you treble for private work and most aren't going to switch to offering more NHS appointments because of the simple fact that it pays less. The answer to this cannot be well let's give the NHS more money to pay dentists even more because all you get out of that are richer dentists. The same applies to GP's because established GP's can easily earn six figure incomes, how can anyone argue that they're not paid enough?
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This is where social democracy comes in. We need GPs and dentists to have enough of a social conscience to have to “make do” and help poorer patients.

Sure they can make loads of money treating private patients, but hopefully we can still have enough that will treat the poorest in society.

NHS dentists and doctors are not as close to the breadline as their patients.

Maybe there needs to be a system where they work for the NHS whilst they work their loans off before they disappear into the private sector.

I don’t imagine the private sector of doctors and dentists being a huge growth area unless the NHS starts to disband.
 
threespires said:
Yet another area of public life that is going to rack and ruin through incompetence and wilful neglect.
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Its not an accident nor is it wilful neglect, its by design. The Tory party has been captured by a particularly dangerous strand of Libertarianism. It believes in small government and believes the public sector interferes with life and therefore should be dismantled. Successive govts, since the 70s have tried to cut spending so that it reflects the levels in the USA, that is why tax cuts are so important to Tories, they give the impression of self responsibility. which means you decide how to spend your money but that comes at the cost of public services. The freedom to starve is Libertarianism in a nutshell, its true freedom to be released from the shackles of the "nanny state" . That is why the premise of cradle to grave welfarism and healthcare have been undermined so much, under that premise according to Libertarianism you are not free to choose to starve and choose to be ill. Not all tories believe this, many will find it abhorrent yet the stealth used many will also not notice because public services are irrelevant to them. They can afford to go private, they have no need for welfare, they are fine. A labour government under Starmer may temper this slightly, but not by much, its needs a radical leftist approach but we saw happened when that became a possibility.
 
Rascal said:
Its not an accident nor is it wilful neglect, its by design. The Tory party has been captured by a particularly dangerous strand of Libertarianism. It believes in small government and believes the public sector interferes with life and therefore should be dismantled. Successive govts, since the 70s have tried to cut spending so that it reflects the levels in the USA, that is why tax cuts are so important to Tories, they give the impression of self responsibility. which means you decide how to spend your money but that comes at the cost of public services. The freedom to starve is Libertarianism in a nutshell, its true freedom to be released from the shackles of the "nanny state" . That is why the premise of cradle to grave welfarism and healthcare have been undermined so much, under that premise according to Libertarianism you are not free to choose to starve and choose to be ill. Not all tories believe this, many will find it abhorrent yet the stealth used many will also not notice because public services are irrelevant to them. They can afford to go private, they have no need for welfare, they are fine. A labour government under Starmer may temper this slightly, but not by much, its needs a radical leftist approach but we saw happened when that became a possibility.
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By 'wilful' I did indeed mean intentional, but 'by design' is a more accurate way of putting it.
 
the latest gem from the tiny Tory minds is from George Useless who suggests that people struggling with the cost of living should move to buying supermarket value range goods to help manage budgets - don't think George has quite grasped who up until now has been buying value range goods - he is sharing a single brain cell with Go-nads it seems
 
bluethrunthru said:
the latest gem from the tiny Tory minds is from George Useless who suggests that people struggling with the cost of living should move to buying supermarket value range goods to help manage budgets - don't think George has quite grasped who up until now has been buying value range goods - he is sharing a single brain cell with Go-nads it seems
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Fucking unbelievable aint it.

I live in a decent area and already Lidl is the busiest supermarket around, Useless has no fucking clue of real life, none of them do.

I fear we will see food riots in this country before long.
 
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