Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Precisely. Commie Comrade Corbyn is still absolutely toxic to most of the population. (With good reason, I might add.)
"None of the above" would walk it at the next GE.
The Conservative Party
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"None of the above" would walk it at the next GE.
Chris in London
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Chippy, in all conscience could you vote Tory in a snap election if their policy on Brexit was either May’s Deal or no deal?
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately yes, because the alternative of letting McDonnell into No. 11 is just absolutely, completely, utterly unthinkable. Might as well have Pol Pot as PM.
He is simply unfit for any role in public office. Period. The idea of him setting the fiscal policies for the entire country? Makes your blood run cold.
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Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
Just a quick reminder that the Tory manifesto contained no costings whatsoever whereas the Labour manifesto as fully costed....
lancs blue
Well-Known Member
Vote for what you believe in, I can't be doing with this negative, tactical "keep Labour/Tories out" stuff. From your posts on here I can't see you having much in common with a future Brexiter-dominated Tory party.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
He may not have anything in common with that wing after they split but I am sure he will be happy with the Tory Remain wing once Mogg's maschinations come to their inevitable end.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a viable option for keeping both the cunts out.
Chris in London
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Completely agree, which is why I couldn't vote labour. There is another alternative to the Tories AND labour, however. I really think the days of 'either labour or tories' are over.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Who? I'd love to think a moderate party consisting of disgruntled moderate, lefter-leaning Tories and disgruntled, moderate, right-leaning Labour MPs could be formed and could gain some popularity. But the LibDems who notionally occupy that space have been decimated in recent elections, and the new Chukka Umunna party has what, 11 MPs?
My expectation is that the next GE will (a) have an absolutely abysmal turnout, but (b) it will be the same two dinosaur parties fighting it out, with pretty much pot luck as to who wins.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Jeremy Corbyn is the opposite of what I believe in, personified. It would be hard to imagine a person with whom I have more diametrically opposed views, than him. And therefore voting for him is absolutely out of the question, under any circumstances.
Chris in London
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Heidi Allen (Chukka Umunna) has 11 MPs now, with I suspect more to follow as Brexit nears its endgame. They are doing remarkably well in the polls bearing in mind how few MPs they have, and I suspect they will do well in the European elections. I certainly hope so, and if they do I think that will transform them into a truly credible political force.
I really think politics has changed as a result of Brexit. right wing v left wing has been replaced by extremism v moderation, and sadly both the traditional parties are, at the moment, different sides of the same extremist coin. One mob don't like muslims, the other don't like jews. I don't see much difference TBH.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
Even if he was up against "Will" of the people?
lancs blue
Well-Known Member
I wasn't suggesting you voted for Corbyn, just whichever party is closest to your beliefs, as I said it doesn't appear to be a right-wing dominated Tory party.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I'm far more aligned with right wing Tories tbh, it's just their idiotic infatuation with leaving the EU for IMO no good reason. I am less aligned to Labour thinking, but even if I was 100% aligned, at the moment with Corbyn and even more importantly McDonnell in charge, no sane person could vote for them. At least no sane person who had thought about it.
I mean seriously, John McDonnell is actually a bone fide Marxist. This isn't some made up Tory slur, he is a self-confessed Marxist. He believes in overthrowing the capitalist system by means of a working class uprising. For Fucks Sake. And returning us to what? Russia in the 1920's?
This might be a bit of a laugh when Wolfie is calling for it in Citizen Smith, but to think we could have a chancellor with those views, is really quite horrifying. It's just unthinkable. This is a man who described the violent vandalism and smashing up of Millbank, "the best of our movement". The best - just think on that for a moment. He has openly called for violent uprising. The guy should be in prison, never mind being considered for a position of power.
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Gareth Barry Conlon
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The key issue for TIG is the alliance they might form with others.
If they fight a GE as separate parties then the huge quantum of voters who will not be able to bring themselves to vote for Lab/Con/UKIP will split there votes between LibDem, TIG, Green & Others. In that instance they would do well to pick up a few seats collectively but they would all be fighting over the same votes.
What would make them a compelling choice would be an alliance where only one of the pro EU parties put up a candidate in each constituency and they had within their manifestos a clear commitment to work together as primarily a pro EU party and to be a progressive centrist coalition, which is not a million miles away from what they are now. If they work together on a shared platform and build up some momentum in the polls then I see no limit to how far they could go, it is difficult to imagine two lesser popular main parties and both with toxic leadership (i'm including whoever replaces May as toxix as no doubt they will be). If the brexit vote gets split and if many traditional lab/con voters do not vote in protest it is wide open for a new pro EU party to make big gains.
The perfect fumble
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1m ago 15:45
May refuses to say if she will resign if UK remains in EU beyond 30 June
Theresa May is speaking to reporters now.
Q: Are you embarrassed to be asking for another delay?
May says she knows many peope will be “frustrated” that this summit is taking place.
She says parliament has not approved a deal. But she is talking to the opposition to try to find a solution.
She says she has asked for an extension until 30 June. But the key point is that the UK must be able to leave when it has passed that deal.
Q: You said you would not stay as PM beyond 30 June if the UK were still in.
May says she hopes to get the deal through parliament, so that the UK can leave before 22 May (which would mean the UK would not have to go ahead with the European elections).
Q: But what will you do if the UK has to stay in?
May says she is working to ensure the UK can leave as soon as possible.
May refuses to say if she will resign if UK remains in EU beyond 30 June
Theresa May is speaking to reporters now.
Q: Are you embarrassed to be asking for another delay?
May says she knows many peope will be “frustrated” that this summit is taking place.
She says parliament has not approved a deal. But she is talking to the opposition to try to find a solution.
She says she has asked for an extension until 30 June. But the key point is that the UK must be able to leave when it has passed that deal.
Q: You said you would not stay as PM beyond 30 June if the UK were still in.
May says she hopes to get the deal through parliament, so that the UK can leave before 22 May (which would mean the UK would not have to go ahead with the European elections).
Q: But what will you do if the UK has to stay in?
May says she is working to ensure the UK can leave as soon as possible.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/19636-marxism-in-800-words
I suggest that you read this (its not long) .... at the same time think about the chaos and loss of jobs that will be caused by AI , robotics and Automation.(think driverless cars)
Capitalism cannot survive if the workers don't have the disposable income to purchase the goods produced.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I wish she'd work to ensure she can leave as soon as possible. 5pm would be great.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/19636-marxism-in-800-words
I suggest that you read this (its not long) .... at the same time think about the chaos and loss of jobs that will be caused by AI , robotics and Automation.(think driverless cars)
Capitalism cannot survive if the workers don't have the disposable income to purchase the goods produced.
I've being saying for 20 years that capitalism won't survive in the long run when robots and computers can do every conceivable job. We'll need a different system of wealth distribution so that working offers just a tiny extra benefit for the few who wish to do it and the rest can lounge about on 95+ of that pay level, for doing fuck all.
But we live in a global market, so until the entire planet is at this level, it cannot happen. And given where Africa and much of Asia is today, that means 50 years+ and IMO 100 years+.
Nice thought experiment, but not for this century.