The Conservative Party

Mr Kobayashi said:
I said not as big a problem. By taking it as seriously as the Tories want you to do, you buy into the narrative that we can no longer afford decent public services and the only way out is mass privatisation.

Household and company debt represents a huge risk, more companies going into administration and liquidation, job losses and less disposable income for people to pay their bills or make discretionary purchases to keep the economy ticking over.

Covid was a war time event in peace time and required a colossal effort, unfortunately it is difficult to get value for money when their is a pervasive attitude of private sector knows best and a culture of political graft in the case of the PPE VIP fastlane.
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So the question is why are the likes of Labour proposing to raise taxes or at least continue with them when there is such a clear colossal mismanagement of public funds? They could raise tens of billions just by reallocating funds which fall into the black hole but I haven't seen any real effort or mention of finding the holes.

The climate at the minute is almost like yes we need to spend to grow and we need lots more money but only because of the perception that it's not enough. No-one seems to care that in some cases it actually is enough but we're not spending it correctly.

I sit between the narrative you mentioned, public services are almost certainly unaffordable and potentially not fit for purpose if a massive portion of funding is going to waste. It's not acceptable to just put more money into it and call that the only policy, it's the same analogy as using a bucket of water to remove water in a ship full of holes.

The private sector automatically is against this kind of waste because it impacts profits which is why just in terms of efficiency privatisation can be and often is superior. I'm not in favour of privatisation in all cases though, if it impacts service levels as is happening on the railways then absolutely not.
 
inbetween said:
The private sector automatically is against this waste because it impacts profits which in terms of efficiency privatisation can be superior. I'm not in favour of privatisation in all cases though, if it impacts service levels as is happening on the railways then absolutely not.
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A false assumption, there are plenty of companies that use wasteful and outdated practices.

Private companies are very good at wasting public money, I previously worked in the children's services dept and saw the extortionate amounts charged by placements.

Public sector departments with limited budgets don't tend to waste money, everything has to go through purchase order process, three quotes, financial challenges if over a certain threshold and will be stingy when allocating resources out.

Public services aren't good at generating additional revenue but then the point of public services isn't primarily to generate revenue.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
A false assumption, there are plenty of companies that use wasteful and outdated practices.

Private companies are very good at wasting public money, I previously worked in the children's services dept and saw the extortionate amounts charged by placements.

Public sector departments with limited budgets don't tend to waste money, everything has to go through purchase order process, three quotes, financial challenges if over a certain threshold and will be stingy when allocating resources out.

Public services aren't good at generating additional revenue but then the point of public services isn't primarily to generate revenue.
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As well as presenting a business case on top of the quotes etc. I was part of a Civil Service project team working with a Private Sector company. They approached me wanting £35000 to complete an asset register which was 90% complete. I thought they’d put the decimal point in the wrong place. I knocked it back and got it completed by approving overtime which came to £800. Responsibility towards the public purse is something both I and many others take very seriously.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
A false assumption, there are plenty of companies that use wasteful and outdated practices.

Private companies are very good at wasting public money, I previously worked in the children's services dept and saw the extortionate amounts charged by placements.

Public sector departments with limited budgets don't tend to waste money, everything has to go through purchase order process, three quotes, financial challenges if over a certain threshold and will be stingy when allocating resources out.

Public services aren't good at generating additional revenue but then the point of public services isn't primarily to generate revenue.
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Private solutions often work short term.
Once they've got their feet under the table however,the quality drops and the charges,for their services goes up.
 
inbetween said:
So the question is why are the likes of Labour proposing to raise taxes or at least continue with them when there is such a clear colossal mismanagement of public funds? They could raise tens of billions just by reallocating funds which fall into the black hole but I haven't seen any real effort or mention of finding the holes.

The climate at the minute is almost like yes we need to spend to grow and we need lots more money but only because of the perception that it's not enough. No-one seems to care that in some cases it actually is enough but we're not spending it correctly.

I sit between the narrative you mentioned, public services are almost certainly unaffordable and potentially not fit for purpose if a massive portion of funding is going to waste. It's not acceptable to just put more money into it and call that the only policy, it's the same analogy as using a bucket of water to remove water in a ship full of holes.

The private sector automatically is against this kind of waste because it impacts profits which is why just in terms of efficiency privatisation can be and often is superior. I'm not in favour of privatisation in all cases though, if it impacts service levels as is happening on the railways then absolutely not.
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Every conservative PM I’ve ever known arrives telling us they will find and cut waste, they never do. Is it possible that apart from on a small scale that colossal waste isn’t really there and privat companies wouldn’t find it either. Maybe public services and just very expensive to run.
I’m sure in the past I’ve read management of our NHS is far cheaper than any private schemes around the world.
 
Private companies exist to maximise profit. In fact, they are under a legal obligation to maximise profits if a PLC. Maximising profit is not always achieved by providing the best possible service so that customers flock to you. Markets are not perfect and are often inflexible.

Public services are not, and should not be, about maximising profit. They ought to be about providing a high-quality service within the constraints of their budget.

When services are 'outsourced' what happens is that a contract is drawn up. Public sector staff are not notably good at this - mostly they lack the expertise. The contractor then delivers to contract (at best) often doing the absolute minimum to meet the standard. The public sector still has to pay staff to ensure the service is, more or less, delivered. Far from reducing bureaucracy, this process creates more. It is a piss-poor system and almost always bad value for money.
 
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blueparrot said:
Every conservative PM I’ve ever known arrives telling us they will find and cut waste, they never do. Is it possible that apart from on a small scale that colossal waste isn’t really there and privat companies wouldn’t find it either. Maybe public services and just very expensive to run.
I’m sure in the past I’ve read management of our NHS is far cheaper than any private schemes around the world.
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They find the ’fat’ and pass it to their pals. That’s our ‘wasted‘ money.
 
Loads of the Tufton St R/w funded MP's and commentators pushing for tax cuts for the rich that today's economic figures show we cannot afford. They know that at best they lose the GE at worst they are wiped out so its now or never for a last minute chance to fill their boots.

On wider points we are supposedly the 6th largest economy ( though with ONS cock ups that remains to be seen ) yet we have to put off paying the lowest pension in Europe until the latest point in life. Our exports have tanked especially to the EU though its ok coz the EU has unfettered access at the moment to our markets. I read the pound is now 6% since Brexit against the Euro but also 30% against the dollar - given what is traded in the dollar we should not be surprised by the state we are in. I read that British immigrants to the EU are selling homes at cut prices due to the 180 day limit so its good our crippled NHS gets more of our elderly and infirm to treat and look after as they return and after nearly 13 years in charge the Tory Govt have debt and interest payments at 98.5% of GDP and are suddenly interested in trying to grow the economy by getting the elderly and inform back to work.

In reality I should be able to get 600 odd Bluemooners who have no political experience but have the deposit to stand in a GE send out flyers with all that on and we would piss the thing against the lot of them. I am also certain that 600 odd people who's only affiliation is the love of a football club could make a better less corrupt and fucked up effort at running a G7 country than this mob
 
Cricket Blue said:
I'm really fucked off and upset at this.
My Dad died at 66 when he should have been enjoying his last years.
Work till your 68 what a fucking joke.
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They don’t even want you to retire pal, just work and die, the cunts making these decisions don’t do manual labour, imagine working on a building site or the roads in all weathers at that age, a nurse lifting a patient in and out of bed, yet an MP gets a fucking good pension after a few years they can all fuck off.
 
bluethrunthru said:
In reality I should be able to get 600 odd Bluemooners who have no political experience but have the deposit to stand in a GE send out flyers with all that on and we would piss the thing against the lot of them. I am also certain that 600 odd people who's only affiliation is the love of a football club could make a better less corrupt and fucked up effort at running a G7 country than this mob
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That last paragraph should be dismissable as insane hyperbole. Except I've just had a think about the interactions I've had with my own MP over the last few years, I've thought about some of what's happened in parliament in the last few years and some of the select committees I've had the misfortune to watch. I've also thought about the inherent conflicts in the ruling party (and the opposition too) and how these are (mis)managed and I've thought about the lack of appetite in parliament for electoral reform and renewal. On this basis and accepting that a percentage won't work out (and that posters from the match day thread will of course be barred from standing), I think with the support of a hopefully still functioning civil service, your proposal is entirely plausible. Which is truly insane.
 
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Nadhim “He Pays What He Wants” Zahawi. Or rather, hubris has kicked in after a long career in business with Jeffrey Archer, not to mention claiming for the heating of his stables on parliamentary expenses – who hasn’t done that? And he now finds he has to pay what the HMRC wants.

www.theguardian.com

Clunk click: Rishi buckles up on the greasy ethics pole | John Crace

The PM says integrity really matters to him, while Boris Johnson continues to take his party into the sewer
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Vic said:
Nadhim “He Pays What He Wants” Zahawi. Or rather, hubris has kicked in after a long career in business with Jeffrey Archer, not to mention claiming for the heating of his stables on parliamentary expenses – who hasn’t done that? And he now finds he has to pay what the HMRC wants.

www.theguardian.com

Clunk click: Rishi buckles up on the greasy ethics pole | John Crace

The PM says integrity really matters to him, while Boris Johnson continues to take his party into the sewer
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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What I find funny is those supporting him like to say he is a successful businessman. Well he makes enough mistakes doesn't he? From stable heating expense claims he had to amend to taxes - I mean he either fills the forms in himself but badly which does no reflect well on a successful businessman or more likely he gets someone else to do it for him - badly - but will sign it all off himself and will do so declaring he has read and understood what is written and declares its true. And that is a man signing off on Govt policy ??? FFS
 
Blue Maverick said:
They don’t even want you to retire pal, just work and die, the cunts making these decisions don’t do manual labour, imagine working on a building site or the roads in all weathers at that age, a nurse lifting a patient in and out of bed, yet an MP gets a fucking good pension after a few years they can all fuck off.
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Yep the tragedy is a big percentage of people will never get much to enjoy the money they have earnt.
This country is finished
 
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