The continuing mistimings of Labours PLP

[The perfect fumble]

Yes it would, it would at least put through a 2nd referendum and give another chance.

They have literally said they’ll give a people’s vote.

You’ve just said Blair didn’t have anywhere near the dissent Corbyn has faced and now there isn’t a lot?

Make your mind up.

Dissent in the party. The PLP is another matter

 

[Damocles]

This nonsense makes sense only if one indulges in political fantasy, a fairy world where Blair is welcomed back in 2017, he vigorously seizes the reigns of the party, energises it and storms to victory, if you can't envisage it then the list is meaningless, in fact, much of it is just a memory now.

The reality, the one you can't contemplate, is Labour was going down in flames on 25% in the polls, it ended on 40% because of a reinvigorated party, due in no short measure to the dynamism of the left, a vigorous campaign and a stonking manifesto.

Now you can go and sit in a darkened room with a bottle of whisky.

I'll have you know I'm a teetotaller Mr Fumble and if was to be found sitting mulling in a darkened room, it would be with a nice Cranberry and Raspberry Juice in my tumbler. Or maybe having a wank. One or the other.

Anyway in seriousness, it's not the man but the policies that I think would win. There's a few bits wrong with the idea you've floated.

Firstly, the 25% as you call it wasn't a New Labour manifesto. Ed Miliband isn't his brother and was a middle point between a Corbyn and Blair figure which means he was unsatisfactory to all involved.

Secondly, in David Cameron he was up against one of the most capable and accomplished politicians of the modern British political age. The man was a shark who manoeuvred both Labour and the Lib Dems into suicidal positions then settled the Scottish question for a generation. If anything, the loss of the Brexit vote was down to his hubris and air of invincibility after wiping out all those challenges that came before him. He isn't Theresa May who is John Major's slightest less charismatic sister.

Thirdly, if I knew Corbyn could lead Labour to election victory then we wouldn't be having this conversation. My problem is that I don't think he can. He's got every possible advantage an Opposition could ask for and he's barely level with the shambles that is the Tories. If you were to invent a conspiracy suggesting that the powers that be in Labour didn't actually WANT to win the next GE so Brexit can happen under a Tory watch then I'd probably give some credence to that.

Lastly, I do think Blair could probably win although he'd be a pointlessly risky candidate. Blair was a strong leader who managed to balance both sides of Labour while keeping the media fairly onside and generally looked like he knew what he was doing. I don't use Blair as an example due to his popularity but as an example of the unpopularity of the two current leaders.

If it helps the argument then you can replace him with David Milliband or Chuka Ummna when it stays the same point. To be deadly honest you could replace him from that bloke from Bodger and Badger and it would stay the same. Yeah, most of his policies would probably be strong on mashed potato and the causes of mashed potato but at least it's a semi consistent agenda.

The goal here, and the point I was making above, is that it doesn't matter how brilliant and wonderful and ideologically pure your candidate is if they can't form a Government. You have to be in power to change things. I like Corbyn personally, not too hot on McDonnell and think Abbott is probably better off rejoining Costello, but Corbyn's got that same authenticity that Trump and others have which is appealing to people at the moment. I just don't think its enough. You've got to win the aspirational middle classes to win the election as they're a big chunk of your swing vote and I don't see them flocking to him. Metropolitan liberals, sure. But the standard professionals, proverbially what we used to call the Mondeo Man, I don't see it.

And if you can't win, you need to step aside so that we can put a Labour Government in place. Because that's the point of all of this.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think you’ll find it’s people who despair that Corbyn and his front bench of old people, are going to give us another five years of a conservative government, possibly led by a rabid right winger in the shape of Johnson or Mogg.
The most ineffective government I can remember, being led by someone nobody wants, and he still can’t get in front of them. Your chap should be making hay and he’s gone into hiding. What Blair understood was that you can’t change anything if you’re always the opposition whereas your no compromise stance will ensure that’s exactly where the Labour Party will stay.

The only people who will give us Johnson or Mogg is the electorate.

They'll give us neither.

Hiding? He's at Party Conference in Liverpool in a fortnight! Try the veal.


My cat could find Corbyn.

 

[Ban-jani]

Dissent in the party. The PLP is another matter

Nice cherry-picking.

Any thoughts on what I’ve said about the Lib Dems?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

The only people who will give us Johnson or Mogg is the electorate.

They'll give us neither.

Hiding? He's at Party Conference in Liverpool in a fortnight! Try the veal.


My cat could find Corbyn.

Try the veal? Sounds like the conference won’t be well attended most days.
Seriously though, you seem to try to trash anyone who vaguely disagrees with you so, from that respect, you’re ideal material for the current Labour Party. He’s had May and the Tories on the floor awaiting the kicking and all he’s managed to do is keep anti-semitism on the front pages and be as incoherent as May on his Brexit views. He’s had as poor a summer as Mourinho and that’s saying something.

 

[Ban-jani]

Try the veal? Sounds like the conference won’t be well attended most days.
Seriously though, you seem to try to trash anyone who vaguely disagrees with you so, from that respect, you’re ideal material for the current Labour Party. He’s had May and the Tories on the floor awaiting the kicking and all he’s managed to do is keep anti-semitism on the front pages and be as incoherent as May on his Brexit views. He’s had as poor a summer as Mourinho and that’s saying something.

The antisemitism saga is just a Zionist plot by the media, you surely must know this by now.

That’s the only reason Jeremy isn’t wiping the floor with everyone.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Try the veal? Sounds like the conference won’t be well attended most days.
Seriously though, you seem to try to trash anyone who vaguely disagrees with you so, from that respect, you’re ideal material for the current Labour Party. He’s had May and the Tories on the floor awaiting the kicking and all he’s managed to do is keep anti-semitism on the front pages and be as incoherent as May on his Brexit views. He’s had as poor a summer as Mourinho and that’s saying something.

I don't trash them, but I'll be honest, re-heated laments for Blairism and the constant repetition of "Corbyn should be wiping the floor with May!" Is just ill informed piffle and I'm running out of nice ways to say so.

PS: But I will reply to Damocles after me tea because

A. He writes long posts.

B. He's a mod.

C. I can't remember.

 

[Ban-jani]

I don't trash them, but I'll be honest, re-heated laments for Blairism and the constant repetition of "Corbyn should be wiping the floor with May!" Is just ill informed piffle and I'm running out of nice ways to say so.

PS: But I will reply to Damocles after me tea because

A. He writes long posts.

B. He's a mod.

C. I can't remember.

D. He’s right

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Yes, they put up. They didn't snipe and sabotage their own party. If they've got that much of a problem with the party they should fuck off and start their own, since they're so convinced Momentum are in the wrong and their views are the electable ones.

Hsw many times did Jezzer vote against his own party? It was over five hundred times, wasn't it?

 

[Rascal]

It's simple really.

Achievements of Labour under Blair:

Achievements of Labour under Corbyn:

1. N/A.

That's the problem. And unless he can populate that list then how great he is is irrelevant.

1/ Corbyn has never been PM so your comparison is not valid

2/ If the third way of caring neo-liberalism (an oxymoron if ever there was one) was so successful why the fuck did Blair lose so many Labour voters over his years in office

3/ Blair is directly responsible through his idiotic support for the Iraq war for the rise of Muslim extremism.

4/ The third way he advocated is directly responsible for the huge rise in inequality.

5/ Blair did some good things, but missing from the list is
a) reversal of Thatcherite union reform
b) lack of renationalisation of vital national assets
c) no democratisation of party processes
d) ludicrous use of PFI
e) refusal to regulate financial markets
e) virtually no council houses built
f) introduction of WCA
g) introduction of fees for university
h) started privatisation of the NHS
I) Pandering to the USA at expense of China
j) No reinstatement of clause 4
k) Millenium dome fiasco
l) No foresight at all on effects of immigration from Eastern Europe
m) No constitutional reform of note
n) Failed to abolish grammar schools
o) Failure to implement Jenkins commission
p) Continued support for nuclear weapons
q) Corporate welfarism of tax credits
r) His biggest sin was to move the Labour party to the centre ground which allowed the Tories to move the Overton window rightwards, negating the calming effects of one nation tories.
s) Failed to join the Euro allowing for rise in UK exceptionalism leading to Brexit
t) being a twat

Blair wasn't a bad man, he was possibly a decent man who wasted his chance to become the greatest Labour PM of them all by ditching Socialism and falling for the neo-liberal con trick. The question he never addressed was that by taking on corporate and wealthy vested interests he could have redistributed assets from those who live off wealth to those who live off work and his failure to do so has led to the rise of the far right extremism and the marginalisation of the working class. If the Labour party is to be anything it needs to be the party of labour not of the owners of production.