The end of the Conservative Party?

The last time labour looked at PR they tried to compromise between true PR and allowing MPs to represent constituencies. Those who wanted PR hated it, and those who didn't want PR hated it.

There is little appetite to scrap MP representing constituencies to allow PR, no MP wants that. Also it encourages 1 issue and nutjob parties, ending up like the Dutch with 4 or 5 parties needed form a coalition which nobody voted for.

Either system has flaws and a compromise can take the worst of both.
 
Corky said:
The last time labour looked at PR they tried to compromise between true PR and allowing MPs to represent constituencies. Those who wanted PR hated it, and those who didn't want PR hated it.

There is little appetite to scrap MP representing constituencies to allow PR, no MP wants that. Also it encourages 1 issue and nutjob parties, ending up like the Dutch with 4 or 5 parties needed form a coalition which nobody voted for.

Either system has flaws and a compromise can take the worst of both.
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But it's worth mentioning that the Dutch get about 10% higher turnout than the UK. I'd argue that a large part of that is because the voting system makes sure everyone's vote is counted, rather than just those who happen to live next to a load of people who agree with them.

Let's be honest, we already have coalitions, they just happen to exist within the parties themselves. There's fuck all similarity between Ken Clarke and Jacob Rees-Mogg, for example. Or Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn. We're already talking about which faction will take over the Conservative party next.

Incidentally, I don't believe that PR would be the solution to all of our problems. It's pretty naive to expect powerful interest groups to somehow figure out how to make PR work in their favour like they do with FPTP. But I think it will increase turnout, engagement and reduce the power of the parties themselves, which I think would be a good thing.
 
blue cigar said:
Hope so but too many self serving types support them. How much of an evil bastard must you be to vote conservative. A life lesson, left leaning voters care about people, right leaning care about money
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I find people on both sides care of the political divide care first and foremost about themselves and vote accordingly.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But it's worth mentioning that the Dutch get about 10% higher turnout than the UK. I'd argue that a large part of that is because the voting system makes sure everyone's vote is counted, rather than just those who happen to live next to a load of people who agree with them.

Let's be honest, we already have coalitions, they just happen to exist within the parties themselves. There's fuck all similarity between Ken Clarke and Jacob Rees-Mogg, for example. Or Keir Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn. We're already talking about which faction will take over the Conservative party next.

Incidentally, I don't believe that PR would be the solution to all of our problems. It's pretty naive to expect powerful interest groups to somehow figure out how to make PR work in their favour like they do with FPTP. But I think it will increase turnout, engagement and reduce the power of the parties themselves, which I think would be a good thing.
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Good posts.

I think what has changed since the Ref on PR is back then it was just the Lib Dems pushing it and the moderate wings of Tory/Labour had a good grip on both parties (at that point in time). They did not assume that fringe factions would take a real grip on members.

What we have seen with Momentum and the ERG is that quite small groups can wield very significant influence on big parties. Momentum and the far left is possibly around 1m voters (at very best) which is a solid number but when you think the Labour vote is closer to 20m then it is a fraction. The ERG has no grass roots equivalent but then the Tory membership of sub 200k has all been brain washed by their anti EU rhetoric. These two groups have promoted some seriously questionable politicians to the forefront of British politics. Therefore many previously uninterested mainstream voters are starting to see some form of PR as a step forward, I include myself in that.

A big question though is what system - I think run off's where a winner has sub 50% is a good system but run off's are slow and costly.
 
I've always supported labour but over the years I have become more anti tory than pro Labour. I would now support any opposition party that has the best chance of kicking the bastards out. Whether it's Labour, lib-dem, independents, greens. I don't care who. I actually now hate the tories more then manure.
 
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