The General Election Thread

[Len Rum]

What's the point of the TV debates?

Will Milliband come on and say 'If we win we'll spend loads of money recklessly and leave the economy in a total mess for the next government'?

Of course he won't, but that's what every Labour government does.

So I don't really need to tune in to the debates to know what Labour is going to do.

I know already.

And I don't need to hear Cameron point out this very obvious truth.

Strange isn't it that since Dave started running scared, members of the right wing fraternity have suddenly started questioning the merits of these debates even going so far as to raise issues of fairness, inclusiveness and the rights of minority parties.
Very unlike them.

Good point Len, and I'm no Labour man. It puzzles me why Cameron shied away from debate, and I agree with you, throwing the Greens in as a desperate attempt at a very poor back-track, hasn't done him any good. From what I've seen Cameron has more than got the measure of Miliband, so I can only presume, as folk are saying on here, it must be Nige who's putting the shits up him. Having said that, he must know that Nige could easily blow Ed out of the water with equal ease, so it will all come down to who's wearing the nicest suit.

Spot on Ancient.
Farage could destroy both Dave and Ed in debate but Ed has to take the chance as he's the likely loser in this election and he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain in these debates.
Cam who's likely to win ( although maybe not an outright majority) doesn't want to blow his likely 'victory' by being upstaged by Nigel ,hence his faux concern over the exclusion of the Greens.

 

[blue cigar]

What are the greens all about these days?they dont seem to get any publicity,im not even sure who the leader is? Have they expanded their outlook beyond the environment? I may well vote for them, im more than a little disillusioned.

 

[Rascal]

What are the greens all about these days?they dont seem to get any publicity,im not even sure who the leader is? Have they expanded their outlook beyond the environment? I may well vote for them, im more than a little disillusioned.

A bit right wing for me, but now have more members than UKIP and are the most left wing of all the parties in the UK

 

[blue cigar]

What are the greens all about these days?they dont seem to get any publicity,im not even sure who the leader is? Have they expanded their outlook beyond the environment? I may well vote for them, im more than a little disillusioned.

A bit right wing for me, but now have more members than UKIP and are the most left wing of all the parties in the UK

Sound like the party for me,a bit of research needed but i like left wing.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Strange isn't it that since Dave started running scared, members of the right wing fraternity have suddenly started questioning the merits of these debates even going so far as to raise issues of fairness, inclusiveness and the rights of minority parties.
Very unlike them.

Good point Len, and I'm no Labour man. It puzzles me why Cameron shied away from debate, and I agree with you, throwing the Greens in as a desperate attempt at a very poor back-track, hasn't done him any good. From what I've seen Cameron has more than got the measure of Miliband, so I can only presume, as folk are saying on here, it must be Nige who's putting the shits up him. Having said that, he must know that Nige could easily blow Ed out of the water with equal ease, so it will all come down to who's wearing the nicest suit.

Spot on Ancient.
Farage could destroy both Dave and Ed in debate but Ed has to take the chance as he's the likely loser in this election and he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain in these debates.
Cam who's likely to win ( although maybe not an outright majority) doesn't want to blow his likely 'victory' by being upstaged by Nigel ,hence his faux concern over the exclusion of the Greens.

Again, I would agree with all of this. I've not been checking the state of play, but are you saying you think Dave may snatch it? If so,that's a big turn around in the polls, but one I fancied to happen.
I vaguely remember that, some time ago, two posters on here bet each other a grand apiece (obviously minted, lucky twats), on the election result, Labour or Conservative, anyone remember who it was?

 

[Damocles]

What's the point of the TV debates?

Will Milliband come on and say 'If we win we'll spend loads of money recklessly and leave the economy in a total mess for the next government'?

Of course he won't, but that's what every Labour government does.

So I don't really need to tune in to the debates to know what Labour is going to do.

I know already.

And I don't need to hear Cameron point out this very obvious truth.

My point exactly.

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

 

[andyhinch]

What's the point of the TV debates?

Will Milliband come on and say 'If we win we'll spend loads of money recklessly and leave the economy in a total mess for the next government'?

Of course he won't, but that's what every Labour government does.

So I don't really need to tune in to the debates to know what Labour is going to do.

I know already.

And I don't need to hear Cameron point out this very obvious truth.

My point exactly.

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

I hope your not holding your breath

 

[Damocles]

A political "revolution" will happen eventually.

By far the biggest voting block is the people of an older age. In fact voting falls almost exactly the younger you get now - this was not always the case.

Politics has failed to engage several generations of people, and seeing the "Everything Labour/Tories do is wrong" crowd just adds more fuel to the fire that something is terribly wrong with our political system. This is why people like Russell Brand get more views on a Youtube video than the entire population of teenagers that voted in the general election - he is actively engaging young people. Now as I've said before he's teaching them bullshit and to carry on the status quo but my point is that the interest is there for that demographic and those around it if the main parties were forced to shape themselves.

As the older generations who treat politics as football teams, those who were radicalised during the disputes in the 70s and 80s, die off the main political parties will have no choice but to reshape themselves into modern organisations.

I am obviously a technophile and also a scientist. I look at the way which the world has dramatically, drastically and enormously changed over the past 20 years and then I look at how the modern parties have changed and there is a pronounced disconnect between the older generations thoughts and the younger generations. Though every generation can claim the same, none of them have the legitimacy that teenagers today have in that claim. They grew up in a world where instant and fast communication was the norm, where their mobile phones had the ability to video call to their friends in Australia, to where their main social movement isn't homosexuals like the 80s or race before that or women's rights before that but a variety of causes surrounding the fight for equality on ALL fronts. For all of the bad that things like the social justice movements online do to their cause, young people actually believe in it and see no reason why a transgendered person cannot claim whichever gender they want or enter the bathroom of the opposite sex. They have many of our strengths yet fewer of our hangups - that is the thing that every generation can claim about their parents.

The world today in 2015 is drastically different even to the world in 2000. People who were born after 9/11 are doing their GCSEs now and will be entering the political sphere soon. They have no trust or faith in their Governments nor politicians nor in any party. They see how technology has changed the world in the past 10 years and it is integrated into their lives unlike any other generation. Even privacy, a huge concern of mine and something that I fight for online, is not a concern for them because information sharing is just something that they have always done.

Look at your kids and look how much smarter and more connected to each other they are. Look how quickly and efficiently they use news services and how their range of sources is such wider than ours was. They live on a totally different planet from people who are over 40 and certainly over 50.

When I see someone now say something like "Labour will run the country into the ground" or "Cameron is an Etonian posh twat who has never done a days work and it sorting out his mates", all I can think to myself is how much of a dinosaur people with these ideas are. They view politics and government in a totally different way to other people.

Labour, Conservative and the Lib Dems aswell as UKIP, the Greens and the like will have to radically evolve from what they are now to capture the voters of tomorrow. I have a local MP called Andy Burnham, the Labour Shadow Health Secretary and I constantly give it out to him on Twitter because all he ever does is say how crap the Tories are and he constantly votes along party lines.

This generation need and want somebody to believe in and somebody who will engage with them on a level which they want to chat. Again, it's what Russell Brand is doing - can you ever imagine a politician turning around and saying "well I don't know the answer to that question because I haven't researched it enough"? It's a level of honesty and using the technology around at the time to put across his message in a way that none of the parties are doing.

The main parties including UKIP are playing for the next election cycle, the next by-election, the next parliamentary debate. They have become so short termist that the future has crept up on them and they now have absolutely no idea what to do with themselves. David Cameron has no idea at all what his job is. Ed Miliband has even less of a clue. Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage are human equivalent of Jim Henson characters. Everybody is doing what they think they should do rather than what they want to do and it's created a hegemony that is instantly dismissed by most.

The entire way that we perform politics has to change and catch up with the modern world if it has any chance at all of engaging people again.

 

[Gray]

Will any of them debate the thorny issue of immigration and the benefit system?

There is also my own personal bug bears of drivers using mobile phones by hand, adverts offering loans at ridiculous rates at peek viewing times, online gambling and unsolicited phone calls and house visits.

Will any of the parties address these issues, I don't think so.

 

[Damocles]

Will any of them debate the thorny issue of immigration and the benefit system?

There is also my own personal bug bears of drivers using mobile phones by hand, adverts offering loans at ridiculous rates at peek viewing times, online gambling and unsolicited phone calls and house visits.

Will any of the parties address these issues, I don't think so.

That is all anybody has talked about for about 3 years.

To many people it's also a shite topic that has no relevance to anything at all.

 

[TangerineSteve17]

I am mildly (to put it heavily) interested in politics. All that means is I watch Question Time from time to time. The amount of immigration debates and blaming that goes on between the parties for the economic meltdown or whavever is such a complete put off. Added to the snippets i've seen at PM Questions where everyone is shouting and I am not that surprised why a lot of people disengage with it all, especially the youth.
I think it does need freshening up, brought forward somehow. I see these debates as a step in the right direction.

 

[Bill]

What's the point of the TV debates?

Will Milliband come on and say 'If we win we'll spend loads of money recklessly and leave the economy in a total mess for the next government'?

Of course he won't, but that's what every Labour government does.

So I don't really need to tune in to the debates to know what Labour is going to do.

I know already.

And I don't need to hear Cameron point out this very obvious truth.

My point exactly.

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

when i've gone i wont give a fuck. my aim is to leave my young un wadded so the rabble that is the left wont affect her lifestyle. thats all i can do.

 

[Len Rum]

What's the point of the TV debates?

Will Milliband come on and say 'If we win we'll spend loads of money recklessly and leave the economy in a total mess for the next government'?

Of course he won't, but that's what every Labour government does.

So I don't really need to tune in to the debates to know what Labour is going to do.

I know already.

And I don't need to hear Cameron point out this very obvious truth.

My point exactly.

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

The main reason for your old people/footballing analogy is our adversarial first past the post winner takes all voting system .
Change to a system of proportional representation and all that changes.
In the case of the youth vote to which you alluded to in a previous post, new parties would emerge representing young people and the best of these whose policies resonated with the younger generation would win seats in a Parliament elected on a proportional vote basis.

 

[malg]

Maybe this is why Dave is trying to body swerve the TV debates (from the BBC):

The Tories should be much more worried about Labour leader Ed Miliband than UKIP's Nigel Farage during the general election campaign, former Conservative Party Chairman Lord Patten has said.

Mr Miliband was "highly intelligent" and a "good debater", the peer told BBC Radio 4's Week in Westminster.

 

[Len Rum]

Maybe this is why Dave is trying to body swerve the TV debates (from the BBC):

The Tories should be much more worried about Labour leader Ed Miliband than UKIP's Nigel Farage during the general election campaign, former Conservative Party Chairman Lord Patten has said.

Mr Miliband was "highly intelligent" and a "good debater", the peer told BBC Radio 4's Week in Westminster.

Patten is right about Ed .
Dave is better at PMQs but Ed is better in a public debating forum.
Whilst Dave would be nervous about this, he probably reckons he's got a good 'story' to tell on the economy against Ed.
It's UKIP and Farage he fears. Dave is flakey on Europe and Immigration whilst Farage is crystal clear on these issues, is a formidable debater and would eat Dave alive in a televised debate.

 

[The perfect fumble]

My point exactly.

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

when i've gone i wont give a fuck. my aim is to leave my young un wadded so the rabble that is the left wont affect her lifestyle. thats all i can do.

Then you'll not be supporting the Right, they've turned a market economy in to a market society, where everything is commoditized. The Right wants wages low, as labour is nothing more than a factor of cost, but consumption to grow fueled by debt. How anyone can support the Right and yet purport to care about future generations is kidding themselves.

 

[Bill]

You people treat politics like you're supporting football teams.

Thankfully once the old generations who do this have gone, we might actually achieve some sort of effective change and governance in this country once Governments have to rely on their ability to govern for votes, rather than who has the best attendance.

when i've gone i wont give a fuck. my aim is to leave my young un wadded so the rabble that is the left wont affect her lifestyle. thats all i can do.

Then you'll not be supporting the Right, they've turned a market economy in to a market society, where everything is commoditized. The Right wants wages low, as labour is nothing more than a factor of cost, but consumption to grow fueled by debt. How anyone can support the Right and yet purport to care about future generations is kidding themselves.

i want a future where my kids can go from success to success, to build on anything i leave them. there is absolutely no chance of that under a labour government. if they do fluke a win, with the assistance of about 15 other parties in coalition, by the time 5 years is up all daves good work will be fucked. yes he will sort it out a again but he's done that this time round. its much better to keep him in office than to start all over again in 5, well i say 5, can't see a weak coalition lasting that long, years time.

 

[law74]

Have to disagree with Len when he says Ed has nothing to fear from the Green Party, the Greens now have more members than either the libdems or ukip and are growing fast, add to this they are the only left party standing in most areas and can cause a lot of damage to labour who many feel have moved far too far to the right.
then add in that their policies resonate with the younger voters and they could well upset labour in a lot of areas, hopefully not to the advantage of the nasty party

 

[Chancy Termites]

Anybody know how many seats the Greens are likely to fight?

 

[hgblue]

Maybe this is why Dave is trying to body swerve the TV debates (from the BBC):

The Tories should be much more worried about Labour leader Ed Miliband than UKIP's Nigel Farage during the general election campaign, former Conservative Party Chairman Lord Patten has said.

Mr Miliband was "highly intelligent" and a "good debater", the peer told BBC Radio 4's Week in Westminster.

Patten is right about Ed .
Dave is better at PMQs but Ed is better in a public debating forum.
Whilst Dave would be nervous about this, he probably reckons he's got a good 'story' to tell on the economy against Ed.
It's UKIP and Farage he fears. Dave is flakey on Europe and Immigration whilst Farage is crystal clear on these issues, is a formidable debater and would eat Dave alive in a televised debate.

Very true, Farage would tear Cameron a new arsehole on touchstone policies such as Europe and immigration and Cameron knows it.