The General Election Thread

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law74 said:
People thinking about voting UKIP need to look at their party funders history, almost all ex-tory donators, a vote for UKIP is like a vote for the Tory's with added rascism

In some ways that is exactly what people want
I think people may be surprised just how many "normal" people will vote for UKIP I think a lot of the political intelligency have misjudged the mood of peoples views on immigration and the EU
imho of course
 
law74 said:
People thinking about voting UKIP need to look at their party funders history, almost all ex-tory donators, a vote for UKIP is like a vote for the Tory's with added rascism
People thinking of voting for UKIP will be doing so on the basis of their policies, not who they are funded by. They won't be put off by detractors making attempts to point out weak claims of hypocrisy based on how or who funds the party, because the same could be said for all the mainstream parties. UKIP (and now Green) voters have had enough of the lies of Labour and the Conservatives and have sought an alternative party that seeks to speak for them. Continuing down the route of trying to demonise and denigrate the party using hyperbole and slander only seeks to harden their opinion that voting UKIP is the one true alternative to a system which seeks to benefit a selective few.

If you want UKIP voters back onside, challenge their new chosen parties policies, but also listen to their concerns and understand just why they have turned from Labour and the Conservatives. Don't patronise them. Using arguments such as 'Don't vote UKIP because they are hypocrites as they are funded by the establishment' means you've ignored everything that UKIP voters have turned to the party for. Who's funding them doesn't even register on the scale of importance as to why they've chosen to vote for UKIP so it is therefore a wasted discussion. Stick to challenging their policies, not resorting to tit-for-tat.
 
Ukip policies? Immigration and getting out of the eu,i dont recall hearing of anymore policies from them. Im also not sure how many ex labour they have attracted,i personally know several ex tory that have moved across as they seem to be tory ultra right wing? For what its worth i dont see them making a dent at the ge, they are a by election party,a protest vote at best and like it or not,they are full of racist scum which will shine through.
 
blue cigar said:
Ukip policies? Immigration and getting out of the eu,i dont recall hearing of anymore policies from them. Im also not sure how many ex labour they have attracted,i personally know several ex tory that have moved across as they seem to be tory ultra right wing? For what its worth i dont see them making a dent at the ge, they are a by election party,a protest vote at best and like it or not,they are full of racist scum which will shine through.

General election policy summary here http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people#
policies4people.gif
The following statements represent highlights of UKIP's policy announcements as made at the Doncaster Conference. More detailed announcements will be made in the run up to the 2015 General Election.

What a UKIP Government will do
Protecting jobs and increasing prosperity

- We would review all legislation and regulations from the EU (3,600 new laws since 2010) and remove those which hamper British prosperity and competitiveness.

– We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage.

– UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.

– We would reoccupy the UK’s vacant seat at the World Trade Organisation, ensuring that we continue to enjoy ‘most favoured nation’ status in trade with the EU, as is required under WTO rules.

Repairing the UK Economy

– UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).

– Inheritance tax will be abolished.

– We will introduce a 35p income tax rate between £42,285 and £55,000, whereupon the 40p rate becomes payable.

– UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.

Reducing debts we leave to our grandchildren

– UKIP will leave the EU and save at least £8bn pa in net contributions.

– UKIP will cut the foreign aid budget by £9bn pa, prioritising disaster relief and schemes which provide water and inoculation against preventable diseases.

– UKIP will scrap the HS2 project which is uneconomical and unjustified.

– UKIP will abolish the Department of Energy and Climate Change and scrap green subsidies.

– UKIP will abolish the Department for Culture Media and Sport.

– UKIP will reduce Barnett Formula spending and give devolved parliaments and assemblies further tax powers to compensate.

Prioritising Education and Skills

– UKIP will introduce an option for students to take an Apprenticeship Qualification instead of four non-core GCSEs which can be continued at A-Level. Students can take up apprenticeships in jobs with certified professionals qualified to grade the progress of the student.

– Subject to academic performance UKIP will remove tuition fees for students taking approved degrees in science, medicine, technology, engineering, maths on the condition that they live, work and pay tax in the UK for five years after the completion of their degrees.

– UKIP will scrap the target of 50% of school leavers going to university.

– Students from the EU will pay the same student fee rates as International students.

– UKIP supports the principle of Free Schools that are open to the whole community and uphold British values.

– Existing schools will be allowed to apply to become grammar schools and select according to ability and aptitude. Selection ages will be flexible and determined by the school in consultation with the local authority.

– Schools will be investigated by OFSTED on the presentation of a petition to the Department for Education signed by 25% of parents or governors.

Honouring the Military Covenant

– We will resource fully our military assets and personnel.

– UKIP will guarantee those who have served in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 12 years a job in the police force, prison service or border force

– UKIP will change the points system for social housing to give priority to ex-service men and women and those returning from active service.

– A Veterans Department will bring together all veterans services to ensure servicemen and women get the after-service care they deserve.

– Veterans are to receive a Veterans’ Service Card to ensure they are fast tracked for mental health care and services, if needed.

– All entitlements will be extended to servicemen recruited from overseas.

– UKIP supports a National Service Medal for all those who have served in the armed forces.

The National Health Service

– UKIP will ensure the NHS is free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.

– We will stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.

– We will ensure that GPs’ surgeries are open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.

– UKIP opposes plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

–We will ensure that visitors to the UK, and migrants until they have paid NI for five years, have NHS-approved private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK, saving the NHS £2bn pa. UKIP will commit to spending £200m of the £2bn saving to end hospital car parking charges in England.

– We will replace Monitor and the Care Quality Commission with elected county health boards to be more responsive scrutineers of local health services. These will be able to inspect health services and take evidence from whistle-blowers.

– UKIP opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

– We will ensure foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.

– UKIP will amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.

– There will be a duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.

Controlling and managing our borders

– UKIP recognises the benefits of limited, controlled immigration.

– UKIP will leave the EU, and take back control of our borders. Work permits will be permitted to fill skills gaps in the UK jobs market.

– We will extend to EU citizens the existing points-based system for time-limited work permits. Those coming to work in the UK must have a job to go to, must speak English, must have accommodation agreed prior to their arrival, and must have NHS-approved health insurance.

– Migrants will only be eligible for benefits (in work or out of work) when they have been paying tax and NI for five years and will only be eligible for permanent residence after ten years.

– UKIP will reinstate the primary purpose rule for bringing foreign spouses and children to the UK.

– UKIP will not offer an amnesty for illegal immigrants or those gaining British passports through fraud.

– UKIP will return to the principles of the UN Convention of Refugees which serves to protect the most vulnerable.

Foreign Aid

– UKIP will target foreign aid at healthcare initiatives, inoculations against preventable diseases and clean water programmes with a much-reduced aid budget administered by the Foreign Office.

– British organisations will be offered the contracts to deliver the remaining aid following removal of the EU Procurement Directive.

Energy

– UKIP will repeal the Climate Change Act 2008 which costs the economy £18bn a year.

– UKIP supports a diverse energy market including coal, nuclear, shale gas, geo-thermal, tidal, solar, conventional gas and oil.

– We will scrap the Large Combustion Plant Directive and encourage the re-development of British power stations, as well as industrial units providing on-site power generation.

– UKIP supports the development of shale gas with proper safeguards for the local environment. Community Improvement Levy money from the development of shale gas fields will be earmarked for lower council taxes or community projects within the local authority being developed.

– There will be no new subsidies for wind farms and solar arrays.

– UKIP will abolish green taxes and charges in order to reduce fuel bills.

Agriculture and Fishing

– By leaving the EU, the UK will leave the Common Agricultural Policy. Outside the EU UKIP will institute a British Single Farm Payment for farms.

– UKIP will let the British parliament vote on GM foods.

– UKIP will leave the Common Fisheries Policy and reinstate British territorial waters.

– Foreign trawlers would have to apply for and purchase fishing permits to fish British waters when fish stocks have returned to sustainable levels.

– Food must be labelled to include the country of origin, method of production, method of slaughter, hormones and any genetic additives.

– UKIP will abolish the export of live animals for slaughter

Welfare and Childcare

– UKIP opposes the bedroom tax because it operates unfairly, penalising those who are unable to find alternative accommodation and taking insufficient account of the needs of families and the disabled.

– Child benefit is only to be paid to children permanently resident in the UK and future child benefit to be limited to the first two children only.

– UKIP will ensure there is an initial presumption of 50/50 shared parenting in child custody matters and grandparents will be given visitation rights.

– UKIP supports a simplified, streamlined welfare system and a benefit cap.

Transport

– We will scrap HS2.

– UKIP opposes tolls on public roads and will let existing contracts for running toll roads expire.

– UKIP will maintain pensioner bus passes.

– UKIP will require foreign vehicles to purchase a Britdisc, before entry to the UK, in order to contribute to the upkeep of UK roads and any lost fuel duty.

– UKIP will ensure that speed cameras are used as a deterrent and not as a revenue raiser for local authorities.

Housing and planning

– UKIP will protect the Green Belt.

– Planning rules in the NPPF will be changed to make it easier to build on brownfield sites instead of greenfield sites. Central government is to list the nationally available brownfield sites for development and issue low-interest bonds to enable decontamination.

– Houses on brownfield sites will be exempt from Stamp Duty on first sale and VAT relaxed for redevelopment of brownfield sites.

– Planning Permission for large-scale developments can be overturned by a referendum triggered by the signatures of 5% of the District or Borough electors collected within three months.

Democracy and the Constitution

– UKIP will overcome the unfairness of MPs from devolved nations voting on English-only issues.

– UKIP supports the recall of MPs as was originally promised in the Coalition Agreement, whereby 20% of the electorate in a constituency must sign a recall petition within eight weeks. The approval of MPs will not be required to initiate a recall petition.

– UKIP will introduce the Citizens’ Initiative to allow the public to initiate national referendums on issues of major public interest.

Law and Order

– UKIP will withdraw from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights.

– UKIP will reverse the government’s opt-in to EU law and justice measures, including the European Arrest Warrant and European Investigation Order. We will replace the EAW with appropriate bi-lateral agreements.

– UKIP will not give prisoners the vote.

– UKIP believes that full sentences should be served and this should be taken into account when criminals are convicted and sentenced in court. Parole should be available for good behaviour on a case-by-case basis, not systematically.

– We will repeal the Human Rights Act and replace it with a new British Bill of Rights. The interests of law-abiding citizens & victims will always take precedence over those of criminals.

Culture

– UKIP recognises and values an overarching, unifying British culture, which is open and inclusive to anyone who wishes to identify with Britain and British values, regardless of their ethnic or religious background.

– Official documents will be published in English and, where appropriate Welsh and Scots Gaelic.

– UKIP will ensure that the law is rigorously enforced in relation to ‘cultural’ practices which are illegal in Britain, such as forced marriages, FGM and so-called ‘honour killings’

– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.

– UKIP will amend the smoking ban to give pubs and clubs the choice to open smoking rooms properly ventilated and separated from non-smoking areas.

– UKIP opposes ‘plain paper packaging’ for tobacco products and minimum pricing of alcohol.

Employment and Small Businesses

– Businesses should be able to discriminate in favour of young British workers.

– Repeal the Agency Workers Directive.

– Conduct a skills review to better inform our education system and qualifications

– Encourage councils to provide more free parking for the high street.

– Simplify planning regulations and licences for empty commercial property vacant for over a year.

– Extend the right of appeal for micro businesses against HMRC action.
 
blue cigar said:
Ukip policies? Immigration and getting out of the eu,i dont recall hearing of anymore policies from them. Im also not sure how many ex labour they have attracted,i personally know several ex tory that have moved across as they seem to be tory ultra right wing? For what its worth i dont see them making a dent at the ge, they are a by election party,a protest vote at best and like it or not,they are full of racist scum which will shine through.
It's that sort of attitude from UKIP's critics that's making UKIP grow to the level it has. It's not a 'protest vote' and the assumption that it is, is one of ignorance. If it is a protest vote then which party or cause is it a protest against? The party has collected support and votes from ex Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat voters. Support for the party has risen as a result of the attempted slander and accusations of racism, sexism, homophobia and all manner of slurs attempted to denigrate the party. In short it's had the opposite affect to what was desired only now we've got hard lined UKIP voters instead of curious ones.

If you continue to think that UKIP's policies are limited to just controlled immigration and an exit from Europe stance it shows you've not done any research on them and have stubbornly chosen the limited stance you have. If you really want to criticise something and have people take you seriously, you need to research as much about it as possible. That's what I did and now have a better understanding of them.

* I did put a list of UKIP policies here, but Chancy Termites has already beaten me to it :) *

Before you ask, no, i'm not a UKIP voter, nor a supporter, though I admit I have considered it. I hold no loyalty to any party and have in the past voted for Labour, Liberal Democrats and even the Conservatives. I suspect that like many others, they share my view that we are fed up with this tittle-tattle between the parties, discussion is being clouded by slander, ridicule and denigration as methods to influence voters rather than having policies which relate to what the general public feels like it should be addressed.

You can shout 'racist scum' to the high heavens as much as you want. As i've already said it hasn't worked on changing people's perception of the party and continuing with that sort of rhetoric only serves to alienate them from you, so any attempts to have discussion or debate is lost as a result. I and many others do not believe the party to be one which holds racist views at it's core policies. Many policies you think belong to UKIP are in fact fabricated by their critics in an attempt to make them 'unacceptable' to the average, undecided voter. Bleating 'racist scum' at every opportunity isn't going to change that viewpoint, it only seeks to make them consider the opposite.
 
Jesus,is that actually real? Leave the eu, reduce barnett and devolve further tax powers....i could be here all day,definately not the party for me. Does it mention being run by racists or do we ignore that minor detail?
Did you see farage this morning when asked about the % of foreign nurses in the uk?abolutely clueless. He makes a general statement then cant give any detail whrn pressed. He should check the views of his deputy and suzanne evans on the nhs,they dont seem to be fans.
 
blue cigar said:
Jesus,is that actually real? Leave the eu, reduce barnett and devolve further tax powers....i could be here all day,definately not the party for me. Does it mention being run by racists or do we ignore that minor detail?
Did you see farage this morning when asked about the % of foreign nurses in the uk?abolutely clueless. He makes a general statement then cant give any detail whrn pressed. He should check the views of his deputy and suzanne evans on the nhs,they dont seem to be fans.
Continuing with that rhetoric makes you look ignorant.

I'm beginning to wonder if you've been indoctrinated by social media to the point where you can't form your own opinions.
 
blue cigar said:
Ukip policies? Immigration and getting out of the eu,i dont recall hearing of anymore policies from them. Im also not sure how many ex labour they have attracted,i personally know several ex tory that have moved across as they seem to be tory ultra right wing? For what its worth i dont see them making a dent at the ge, they are a by election party,a protest vote at best and like it or not,they are full of racist scum which will shine through.

I think UKIP would love to talk about their other policies, but everytime they get an opportunity to talk, the questions posed are always based on Europe and immigration because that's where the media (controlled by supporters of the established political parties) are likely to get a 'racist' soundbite. As others have said, they have a full manifesto and if it isn't for you then fair enough. It's ignorant to assume it didn't exist though.
 
blue cigar said:
Ukip policies? Immigration and getting out of the eu,i dont recall hearing of anymore policies from them. Im also not sure how many ex labour they have attracted,i personally know several ex tory that have moved across as they seem to be tory ultra right wing? For what its worth i dont see them making a dent at the ge, they are a by election party,a protest vote at best and like it or not,they are full of racist scum which will shine through.

According to a Guardian survey in November, about 23% of people who say they will vote UKIP at the next general election used to vote Labour.
 
blue cigar said:
Jesus,is that actually real? Leave the eu, reduce barnett and devolve further tax powers....i could be here all day,definately not the party for me. Does it mention being run by racists or do we ignore that minor detail?
Did you see farage this morning when asked about the % of foreign nurses in the uk?abolutely clueless. He makes a general statement then cant give any detail whrn pressed. He should check the views of his deputy and suzanne evans on the nhs,they dont seem to be fans.

I'm setting off to go the match soon but I've played the game on here before where people say UKIP are racist so I post a link to a story where a Conservative says/does something racist, then people say UKIP are racist again so I post a link to a story where a Lib Dem says/does something racist, then people say UKIP are racist again so I post a link to a story where someone from Labour says/does something racist, and then the person who's been saying UKIP are racist says UKIP are racist again.

So if you want to play that game, just let me know. I quite enjoy it you know!
 
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