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worsleyweb
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Rascal said:
Have you been following me?
The General Election Thread
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Have you been following me?
Lucky13
Well-Known Member
England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Coalition ruled out by Ed.Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
If I in any way represent the 'typical' floating voter then marshaling Tony Blair into the election debate was probably a mistake on Labour's part.
I used to quite like him and think domestically he did a lot of good. I also think up to 9/11 his judgement on foreign affairs was sound, but that event and the success he'd enjoyed prosecuting a military campaign in Kosovo and the sense of righteousness that seemed to engender in him, warped his capacity to properly consider the UK's best interests. He lost sight of his job description.
Whatever way you want to analyse it, Iraq was the big call of his Prime Ministership and he royally fucked it up. It was, and remains, an utter fucking abortion.
Leaders should always be judged on the big decisions they have to make and in that regard Tony Blair was all too sadly lacking.
For that reason, to some extent at least, I now think he's a bit of a wanker.
I'm sure the journey I've been on isn't a solitary one.
I used to quite like him and think domestically he did a lot of good. I also think up to 9/11 his judgement on foreign affairs was sound, but that event and the success he'd enjoyed prosecuting a military campaign in Kosovo and the sense of righteousness that seemed to engender in him, warped his capacity to properly consider the UK's best interests. He lost sight of his job description.
Whatever way you want to analyse it, Iraq was the big call of his Prime Ministership and he royally fucked it up. It was, and remains, an utter fucking abortion.
Leaders should always be judged on the big decisions they have to make and in that regard Tony Blair was all too sadly lacking.
For that reason, to some extent at least, I now think he's a bit of a wanker.
I'm sure the journey I've been on isn't a solitary one.
Rascal
El Presidente
gordondaviesmoustache said:
As one of the more intelligent nutjobs that inhabit this den of far right iniquity i expected more from you my friend. Sadly you appear to have taken the myopic stereotypical view of Blair that is prevalent in todays media.
Blair ultimatly dissappointed me but for reasons other than Iraq. He was far too right wing for a start in my eyes but his Government did much good and really did transform parts of our nation. In my view he will over time be seen as a superb Prime Minister and he was and still is a supreme orator and political operator. Nobody around today comes close to him.
His successes in Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Northern Ireland are all forgotten and his part in Iraq is magnified to such an extant it is now unclear as to what, why and when really happened. 9/11 no doubt changed the world and any British PM in power that day would have had to react as he did. He is revered in the USA for his actions as he stood shoulder to shoulder with a grieving nation and offered the firm backing of the "old country" to its greatest friend and prodigy. I would argue it was almost impossible not to go to war with Iraq once Bush and his Republican hawks had decided that was the course of action that they would persue. Its now almost forgotten that the Tory party almost to a man backed Blair whilst the Labour party did not. And it was not just us that fought alongside the USA, it was a coalition of countries, yet Blair always appears as the man to shoulder the most blame. History may show that the real failure was not removing Saddam in the first Gulf war when public opinion supported it and the second gulf war was inevitable due to that failure of the our political leaders of the day.
As for Blairs appearence today, he reminded me somewhat nostalgically of the days of 97, when he was seen as the great hope for Labour. He is still a brilliant communicator and i doubt he will damage Ed Miliband as much as people think because he not only shows Ed to be a pale shadow of himself, he shows the public that all our party leaders are nowhere near to his standard.
Saying all this i would not vote for Blair in the upcoming election, not because of his supposed crimes but because he is too right wing for my tastes. :))
Scottyboi
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you are mixing Afghan conflict up with the Iraq one, the Iraq war was based on lies and led to a Dr dying in very suss circumstances.
Tony Blair is a war criminal.
Tony Blair is a war criminal.
Bill
Well-Known Member
Len Rum said:Coalition ruled out by Ed.Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
whp.blue
Well-Known Member
Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
A perfect example of tail wagging the dog
Scottish MP's should stick to Scottish Politics
whp.blue said:Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
A perfect example of tail wagging the dog
Scottish MP's should stick to Scottish Politics
That's exactly what was about to happen until Cameron stepped in with his blank cheque for the Scots.
whp.blue
Well-Known Member
Len Rum said:Coalition ruled out by Ed.Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
Until it comes to the time to form a Government
This Election, when UKIP are likely split the Conservative vote, is Millibands only chance of power he will make a pact with the devil if he thinks in will put him into No.10.
If the SNP carry any weight after the next Election England will be dry bummed and Milliband being a non-entity will let it happen No matter what happens at this Election it is the only one Milliband will get as a Party leader so he is bound to make the most of it. being PM even for one day in a minority Government sets him up for life. He will not turn that down.
He will probably come out with some bollocks like for the good of the Nation and it is better to enter into a pact with the SNP than try to run the country will a minority Labour Government.
Before the Flid comments and starts asking for proof I will add the Caveat IMHO of course!
Lucky13
Well-Known Member
Great day for Call me Dave , war criminal Blair telling voters we are too stupid to have a vote on the EU and the Krankie telling England we will rule you by propping up Beaker.
Their arrogance is staggering.
Their arrogance is staggering.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
The two opinion polls published yesterday both showing Labour two points ahead did spoil David's day somewhat.Lucky13 said:
Lucky13
Well-Known Member
Len Rum said:
Against a background of 95% of tax payers paying less tax , the Socialists now attacking non Dom residents who will just live somewhere else , absolutely clueless financial policies by the Socialists.
Miliband should tell Blair to shut up.
Tony Blair, Euro expert, in 1998: "Single currency… marks stability and growth and is crucial to high levels of growth and employment."
whp.blue said:Len Rum said:Coalition ruled out by Ed.Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
Until it comes to the time to form a Government
This Election, when UKIP are likely split the Conservative vote, is Millibands only chance of power he will make a pact with the devil if he thinks in will put him into No.10.
If the SNP carry any weight after the next Election England will be dry bummed and Milliband being a non-entity will let it happen No matter what happens at this Election it is the only one Milliband will get as a Party leader so he is bound to make the most of it. being PM even for one day in a minority Government sets him up for life. He will not turn that down.
He will probably come out with some bollocks like for the good of the Nation and it is better to enter into a pact with the SNP than try to run the country will a minority Labour Government.
Before the Flid comments and starts asking for proof I will add the Caveat IMHO of course!
??
Hart of the Matter
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Ironic how the English right (Unionists) complain about the Scots holding the balance of power. Tories have one MP in Scotland - has not stopped them making UK policy decisions that impact on Scotland....Lucky13 said:
Lucky13
Well-Known Member
Hart of the matter said:
The difference being the SNP don't want to be in the Union , they've got their own Parliament now , which I aint got a problem with.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/</a>
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I don't believe the views I've advanced on Blair are particularly typical in today's media. Those that criticise him, tend to do so much more generally. Most of the other media output, like yourself, tries to justify the unjustifiable, because it is politically expedient to do so.Rascal said:
I've always believed, for example, that great footballers deliver on the big occasions. I've always believed that the true mark of someone is how they deliver when it really matters. That is the ultimate barometer of their worth in whatever role they perform in this world. Tony Blair's 'World Cup Final' was Iraq.
Tony Blair hang his hat on a lie. A lie that definitively said that there was sufficient intelligence to suggest Saddam Hussain had WMDs to the point where he was content to put the lives of British Servicemen (and the wider public) on the line. He was spectacularly wrong about WMDs. This is undeniable.
Faced with that, rather than put his hands up, the reason for prosecuting the war suddenly morphed overnight into 'regime change'. A complete cunts trick.
Like I said, he's a wanker and a spineless one to boot.
I agree with you however, that as a politician and a communicator he was, and remains, supreme.
Lucky13
Well-Known Member
Red Ed Balls, the man who wants to be Chancellor
"If you abolish the whole status it will end up costing Britain money because some people will leave the country" @edballsmp 3/4
"If you abolish the whole status it will end up costing Britain money because some people will leave the country" @edballsmp 3/4
Rascal
El Presidente
whp.blue said:Len Rum said:Coalition ruled out by Ed.Lucky13 said:England expects every voter to do their duty, Call me Dave for PM
Until it comes to the time to form a Government
This Election, when UKIP are likely split the Conservative vote, is Millibands only chance of power he will make a pact with the devil if he thinks in will put him into No.10.
If the SNP carry any weight after the next Election England will be dry bummed and Milliband being a non-entity will let it happen No matter what happens at this Election it is the only one Milliband will get as a Party leader so he is bound to make the most of it. being PM even for one day in a minority Government sets him up for life. He will not turn that down.
He will probably come out with some bollocks like for the good of the Nation and it is better to enter into a pact with the SNP than try to run the country will a minority Labour Government.
Before the Flid comments and starts asking for proof I will add the Caveat IMHO of course!
Morning Chuck
xxx
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