The General Election Thread

[carlosthejackal]

It's because we have left wing posters but they have decided not to engage any more in the Cellar because of what they see as racist, homophobic, Islamophobic or anti-Semitic, or fascistic views being aired as a norm. The problem here is that despite cries from a small view, we're a very liberal forum on what people can say and you've got to really cross over a line to get any sort of punishment meted out.

I disagree.

I think it's because left-wing people are often quite poor at debate and banter.

They make assertions and if anyone disagrees they quickly move to daft accusations of racism, homophobia etc, and seem genuinely astounded that anyone has dared to disagree with them.

They simply can't cope adequately with dissent, perhaps because they often stick together in social and working environments where political correctness reigns and there is not a diversity of views, so they come to believe that all normal, caring and clever people must necessarily have opinions like their own and those who don't are motivated by greed, malice and other negative traits.

This forum is moderated fairly. I suggest lefties go to the Guardian's Comment is Free section where off-message comments are ruthlessly deleted so that delicate, liberal, progressive sensibilities are not affronted.

Serious ?

 

[worsleyweb]

It's because we have left wing posters but they have decided not to engage any more in the Cellar because of what they see as racist, homophobic, Islamophobic or anti-Semitic, or fascistic views being aired as a norm. The problem here is that despite cries from a small view, we're a very liberal forum on what people can say and you've got to really cross over a line to get any sort of punishment meted out.

I disagree.

I think it's because left-wing people are often quite poor at debate and banter.

They make assertions and if anyone disagrees they quickly move to daft accusations of racism, homophobia etc, and seem genuinely astounded that anyone has dared to disagree with them.

They simply can't cope adequately with dissent, perhaps because they often stick together in social and working environments where political correctness reigns and there is not a diversity of views, so they come to believe that all normal, caring and clever people must necessarily have opinions like their own and those who don't are motivated by greed, malice and other negative traits.

This forum is moderated fairly. I suggest lefties go to the Guardian's Comment is Free section where off-message comments are ruthlessly deleted so that delicate, liberal, progressive sensibilities are not affronted.

Yes, left wingers are well known for dismissing education and not championing diversity.

or shouting Tory Scum - fuck off and die?

 

[worsleyweb]

Where were all these comments in the build up is my question, the Tory party were demonised when in reality people with real experience could argue differently........... there was no damage done it turns out but it does make me wonder

Well we were nearly evicted for not paying the bedroom tax,I'd say that did some damage! Our second bedroom is used to store medical equipment and a computer. On the subject of benefit money I'd say ours has gone up slightly,a few quid maybe. Not enough to fund a lavish lifestyle which everybody seems to think most benefit claimants live.

The welfare cuts won't fall where people expect because the conventional unemployment based ones have been cut as much as they can be cut. The turkeys have just voted for Xmas. It's the Child Benefit and Tax Credits of many a Tory voter they will slash away at.

I think they should take child benefit off anyone earning over 100k - seems logical and they might well do it.

 

[dickie davies]

I wouldn't worry about the SNP. I think Scotland will leave the Union soon enough. It is unrealistic to believe otherwise.

Based on what?

Based on the results of the last referendum and the fact that the English parties have now been wiped out (because of the collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland). The SNP is a nationalist party and they have now wiped the floor with everyone in wholly unprecedented ways. They have 56 seats now (as opposed to the six they had just yesterday). What else could they be asking for with that situation than independence?

Was the combined vote for the SNP more than the combined vote for the Unionist parties?
Or was it just about the same as the referendum, 45% for independence, 55% against

 

[Pam]

Delighted you can rest easy for the next 5 years knowing your hard work in your small business will not be undermined by the government.

Good grief, you give sycophancy a bad name

Cheers. (not seen my apology yet by the way) The best day since Sergio won the title for us this.

My dad has just said how have I raised two Tories. He was Union leader for the baggage handlers at the airport for twenty years. I tried to explain to him that the need for Unions and militancy are over but it is like talking to the wall.

Worlsey, soon enough you are going to look back on this as one of your worst days ever. Small majority/minority governments are always a disaster to the governing party in the long run. Like I said, the temptation for parliamentary fuckwits to blackmail their own will be far too tempting to resist in the long run. Can't wait for the Tory splits and melt-downs.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

It seems very odd that 1.5million SNP votes gets them 56 seats, whereas 4 million UKIP votes only gets them 1 seat. Scotland does not warrant so many seats it gives them a much bigger voice than they deserve in Westminster.

I wouldn't worry about the SNP. I think Scotland will leave the Union soon enough. It is unrealistic to believe otherwise. The Yes vote will win the next referendum, not least because the Tories ran a campaign that was openly hostile towards the Scottish people.

Scotland will be offered federal independence as a solution to the west Lothian question. They will be offered full control over tax and spending and will reject it as they know they are broke. This will kill the SNP and restore labour to Scotland. It won't matter by then as labour will be dead in England.

Just guessing ;-)

 

[Damocles]

Noel Bayley retains his seat in Bury.

He used to write the BTH/Electric Blue fanzine is the name sounds familiar

 

[Pam]

Based on what?

Based on the results of the last referendum and the fact that the English parties have now been wiped out (because of the collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland). The SNP is a nationalist party and they have now wiped the floor with everyone in wholly unprecedented ways. They have 56 seats now (as opposed to the six they had just yesterday). What else could they be asking for with that situation than independence?

Was the combined vote for the SNP more than the combined vote for the Unionist parties?
Or was it just about the same as the referendum, 45% for independence, 55% against

It was slightly over 50%, I think, and the nature of this GE campaign will stir yet more resentment from here on in.

 

[Damocles]

I disagree.

I think it's because left-wing people are often quite poor at debate and banter.

They make assertions and if anyone disagrees they quickly move to daft accusations of racism, homophobia etc, and seem genuinely astounded that anyone has dared to disagree with them.

They simply can't cope adequately with dissent, perhaps because they often stick together in social and working environments where political correctness reigns and there is not a diversity of views, so they come to believe that all normal, caring and clever people must necessarily have opinions like their own and those who don't are motivated by greed, malice and other negative traits.

This forum is moderated fairly. I suggest lefties go to the Guardian's Comment is Free section where off-message comments are ruthlessly deleted so that delicate, liberal, progressive sensibilities are not affronted.

Yes, left wingers are well known for dismissing education and not championing diversity.

or shouting Tory Scum - fuck off and die?

Actually he told the Lib Dems to fuck off and die.

And judging left wingers by that guy is like judging all right wingers by the Muslamic Rayguns person.

 

[worsleyweb]

Good grief, you give sycophancy a bad name

Cheers. (not seen my apology yet by the way) The best day since Sergio won the title for us this.

My dad has just said how have I raised two Tories. He was Union leader for the baggage handlers at the airport for twenty years. I tried to explain to him that the need for Unions and militancy are over but it is like talking to the wall.

Worlsey, soon enough you are going to look back on this as one of your worst days ever. Small majority/minority governments are always a disaster to the governing party in the long run. Like I said, the temptation for parliamentary fuckwits to blackmail their own will be far too tempting to resist in the long run. Can't wait for the Tory splits and melt-downs.

Pam you have said that eleven times now and it smack of desperation. Were you celebrating last night? I only like you when you are attacking rags. This is in my opinion a great day for this country and will continue to sort our economy out. HAVE FAITH IN DAVE - pam - its the way forward.

 

[Damocles]

[bigimg]http://i.imgur.com/YkrIAjA.png[/bigimg]

 

[worsleyweb]

Noel Bayley retains his seat in Bury.

He used to write the BTH/Electric Blue fanzine is the name sounds familiar

wasn't he on here years ago?

 

[Damocles]

Noel Bayley retains his seat in Bury.

He used to write the BTH/Electric Blue fanzine is the name sounds familiar

wasn't he on here years ago?

Yeah, still is IIRC just under a different name.

 

[Pam]

Check this out about the fate of other minority/slim majority governments in "no-confidence" votes. Read and weep.

List of Resignations

Name of Prime Minister against whom motion passed Date Subject of Motion Result & Majority against Ministry Consequences

Lord North 27 February 1782 Motion to end offensive war in America[12] 234-215 & 19 Resigned on 22 March[13]

The Duke of Wellington 15 November 1830 Motion to examine the accounts of the Civil List[14] 204-233 & 29 Resigned on 16 November

Sir Robert Peel 7 April 1835 Report on the Irish Church[15] 285-258 & 27 Resigned on 8 April .[16]

The Viscount Melbourne 4 June 1841 Motion of no confidence[17] 312-311 & 1 Advised the Queen to dissolve Parliament, which she did on 23 June - see next entry.[18]

The Viscount Melbourne 27 August 1841[19] Amendment to the Address[20] - see here for more details of this procedure 269-360 & 91 Resigned on 30 August.[21][22]

Sir Robert Peel 25 June 1846 Irish Coercion Bill[23] 219-292 & 73 Resigned on 27 June.[24]

Lord John Russell later The Earl Russell 20 February 1852 Militia Bill[25] 125-136 & 11 Resigned on 21 February.[26]

The Earl of Derby 16 December 1852[27] Budget[28] 286-305 & 19 Resigned on 17 December.[29]

The Earl of Aberdeen 29 January 1855[30] Vote in favour of a select committee to enquire into alleged mismanagement during the Crimean War[31] 305-148 & 157 Resigned on 30 January.[32]
The Viscount Palmerston 19 February 1858[33] Bill which made it a felony to plot in Britain to murder someone abroad[34] 215-234 & 19 Resigned on 21 February.[35]

The Earl of Derby 10 June 1859[36] Amendment to the Address[37] 323-310 & 13 Resigned on 11 June.[38]

The Earl Russell formerly Lord John Russell 18 June 1866 Parliamentary reform proposals[39] 325-304 & 11 Resigned on 26 June.[40]

William Ewart Gladstone 8 June 1885[41] Budget[42] 252-264 & 12 Resigned on 9 June.[43]

The Marquess of Salisbury 26 January 1886[44] Amendment to the Address[45] 329-250 & 79 Resigned on 28 January.[46]

William Ewart Gladstone 7 June 1886[47] The Government of Ireland Bill[48] 311-341 & 30 Advised the Queen to dissolve Parliament, which she did on 26 June.[49]

The Marquess of Salisbury 11 August 1892[50] Amendment to the Address[51] 350-310 & 40 Resigned on 11 August.[52]

Archibald Primrose, 5th Earl of Rosebery 21 June 1895 The Cordite Vote[53] 132-125 & 7 Resigned on 21 June.[54]

Stanley Baldwin 21 January 1924 Amendment to the Address[55] 328-251 & 77 Resigned on 22 January .[56]

Ramsay MacDonald 8 October 1924 Motion in respect of the Campbell Case[57] 364-198 & 166 Advised the King to dissolve Parliament, which he did on 9 October.[58]

James Callaghan 28 March 1979 Motion of no confidence[59] 311-310 & 1 Advised the Queen to dissolve Parliament, which she did on 7 April.[58]
Constitutional practice[edit]

 

[bluemoon32]

Work has been fun today with some heated discussions, not sure why some of my co-workers are angry or gloating as they are PAYE workers in the private sector and very very little will change for them regardless of who's in power.
Funny to watch them argue though.

 

[TCIB]

So do we start another thread for Miliband stepping down or keep it here ?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32633388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32633388</a>

No idea why they stuck it in health section.

Edit: missed it

 

[carlosthejackal]

Why do labour politicians keep trotting out the line about representing the working class ? Do they seriously believe that people who vote Tory, lib dem, UKIP, SNP are not working class ?

 

[Paulpowersleftfoot]

Noel Bayley retains his seat in Bury.

He used to write the BTH/Electric Blue fanzine is the name sounds familiar

wasn't he on here years ago?

Yeah, still is IIRC just under a different name.

Think he used to drink in didsbury if it's the same fella

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Noel Bayley retains his seat in Bury.

He used to write the BTH/Electric Blue fanzine is the name sounds familiar

As he is one of my local councillors then I'll say we'll done Noel.

 

[urmston]

It's because we have left wing posters but they have decided not to engage any more in the Cellar because of what they see as racist, homophobic, Islamophobic or anti-Semitic, or fascistic views being aired as a norm. The problem here is that despite cries from a small view, we're a very liberal forum on what people can say and you've got to really cross over a line to get any sort of punishment meted out.

I disagree.

I think it's because left-wing people are often quite poor at debate and banter.

They make assertions and if anyone disagrees they quickly move to daft accusations of racism, homophobia etc, and seem genuinely astounded that anyone has dared to disagree with them.

They simply can't cope adequately with dissent, perhaps because they often stick together in social and working environments where political correctness reigns and there is not a diversity of views, so they come to believe that all normal, caring and clever people must necessarily have opinions like their own and those who don't are motivated by greed, malice and other negative traits.

This forum is moderated fairly. I suggest lefties go to the Guardian's Comment is Free section where off-message comments are ruthlessly deleted so that delicate, liberal, progressive sensibilities are not affronted.

Serious ?

Yes.

Many lefties do have a problem with debate.

This explains why lefties are so keen on political correctness, which they use as a way of severely restricting what anyone is allowed to say and constrains conversation in a way which they like.

When they come up against people who are not advocates of political correctness and who speak freely they simply can't cope with the discussion and quickly start to splutter and rant about racism, homophobia etc in an attempt to shut down debate altogether.

In face to face situations this approach often works as people just back off to avoid unpleasantness, realising they are talking with an intolerant loony.

But on a lightly and fairly moderated internet forum such as this, where debate is allowed to carry on, lefties often have no option but to absent themselves from an arena which they can't deal with.