The IRA

[SWP's back]

Utter fucking bullshit. You knew exactly what sort of response you'd get on here.

Yep

Only by the purile.

-- Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:31 pm --

I know that. Everyone knew that. My point was not about each side knowing who was who, It's the assumption that they could have been "taken out" at any time that i think is wrong.

Bleat? Piss off
Why is it wrong that the British Army couldn't have been taken out the major IRA players "if" the order had been given for shall we say a night of the long knives. the British Army could most certainly have done the job in double quick time.

I`m sure they could have killed many more if they had been unleashed, but they should not bleat if they take a hit from there enemy.

 

[mammutly]

Dead right, doesnt every pathological nobody want a gun and bomb to let the world know they have power ?

I can only imagine that your replies are somewhat tongue in cheek albeit with a healthy dose of cynicism that makes them more believable. My aim was to outline (maybe not very successfully), the viewpoint of potential recruits for paramilitary organisations in the North. You may feel you have good reason to be dismissive due to your revulsion at the horrific events that have blighted us for so long and I wont say you arent entitled.

However, dismissing members of these organisations as 'pathological nobodies' is as dangerous as it is misleading. It is also counter productive. We now have a society where large swathes of the population maintain an affinity with paramilitaries as part of their culture.A large proportion of people in the North will condemn the actions of paramilitary organisations yet still harbour a regard for them.

If we ignore their influence we run a very real risk of descending back into the nightmare scenario that many of us grew up with. Put simply, when we take away the need (perceived or otherwise) of people to tip their hat to the 'protector in the shadows', we will go a long way to sustainable peace.We cannot do that if we arent aware of the depth of feeling that formed these organisations in the first place.

I agree completely and I thought, naively it seems as far as this forum is concerned, that the majority had at least achieved an awareness of the other side's position.

Another poster said that I started this thread knowing the reaction it would provoke. That isn't true. None of my family, or friends, or people I've spoken with in Ireland have the same locked in hatred for the old enemy that I've ssen written here.. And it has genuinely shocked me to read some of the abusive comment.

But there have also been some thoughtful, insightful and intelligent posts.
So, I'll take heart from those and move on. Might be a topic returned to in the future, but this poster won't be introducing it.

 

[bluetoo]

Dead right, doesnt every pathological nobody want a gun and bomb to let the world know they have power ?

I can only imagine that your replies are somewhat tongue in cheek albeit with a healthy dose of cynicism that makes them more believable. My aim was to outline (maybe not very successfully), the viewpoint of potential recruits for paramilitary organisations in the North. You may feel you have good reason to be dismissive due to your revulsion at the horrific events that have blighted us for so long and I wont say you arent entitled.

However, dismissing members of these organisations as 'pathological nobodies' is as dangerous as it is misleading. It is also counter productive. We now have a society where large swathes of the population maintain an affinity with paramilitaries as part of their culture.A large proportion of people in the North will condemn the actions of paramilitary organisations yet still harbour a regard for them.

If we ignore their influence we run a very real risk of descending back into the nightmare scenario that many of us grew up with. Put simply, when we take away the need (perceived or otherwise) of people to tip their hat to the 'protector in the shadows', we will go a long way to sustainable peace.We cannot do that if we arent aware of the depth of feeling that formed these organisations in the first place.

I agree completely and I thought, naively it seems as far as this forum is concerned, that the majority had at least achieved an awareness of the other side's position.

Another poster said that I started this thread knowing the reaction it would provoke. That isn't true. None of my family, or friends, or people I've spoken with in Ireland have the same locked in hatred for the old enemy that I've ssen written here.. And it has genuinely shocked me to read some of the abusive comment.

But there have also been some thoughtful, insightful and intelligent posts.
So, I'll take heart from those and move on. Might be a topic returned to in the future, but this poster won't be introducing it.

The 'troubles' as we understood them have only just ended. It's hardly surprising that peoples emotions are still raw. As AWG alluded to earlier, its going to take a few more generations before the hurt begins to heal and there can be productive and inclusive debate on many issues.

Its a shame that people have rounded on you as you were expressing an opinion that really has little to do with their grievances. Each and every time I have a discussion on this topic I see people with an answer ready to present long before a question has been asked. Its too soon for reasoned discussion in many instances and I can fully appreciate why.

For what its worth I think you were courageous in starting the thread. I also think you were correct. Possibly the trouble was that you may have expected people to think about your comments dispassionately...if they did I doubt there could be many who could disagree with you. If it were possible to view the subject without bias, the truth is that people on all sides of the conflict showed outstanding bravery and courage, just as there were those who showed sickening brutality and cowardice. Cliches are only cliches because they are true and no side has a monopoly on hurt no more than they have a monopoly on claims of honour.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

this topics subject line is one of those that will always descend into what it is at the moment.

It is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on a football forum about such a subject, especially when the majority of the people using the forum come from countries involved in the conflict.

What I will say is that it is evident that there is hatred still simmering under the surface on both sides, among the ignorant. When you see people using the word Fenians and a football player getting booed in Dublin because he played for Rangers, then how can there be real progress.

I don't agree with the theory that we just need to move on, if we did that then the rifts would never be healed.

there needs to be active communication and participation in community events in the North by both sides, for example, the hurling in Stormont was great to see.

Time won't heal it either when you have fathers passing on bad blood to their children.

 

[glen quagmire]

The op is a wum. Which kind of tarnishes the topic for me.

 

[bluetoo]

The op is a wum. Which kind of tarnishes the topic for me.

Could be....although I doubt it. Whatever the truth its a worthwhile debate.<br /><br />-- Aug 8th, '11, 20:35 --<br /><br />

this topics subject line is one of those that will always descend into what it is at the moment.

It is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on a football forum about such a subject, especially when the majority of the people using the forum come from countries involved in the conflict.

What I will say is that it is evident that there is hatred still simmering under the surface on both sides, among the ignorant. When you see people using the word Fenians and a football player getting booed in Dublin because he played for Rangers, then how can there be real progress.

I don't agree with the theory that we just need to move on, if we did that then the rifts would never be healed.

there needs to be active communication and participation in community events in the North by both sides, for example, the hurling in Stormont was great to see.

Time won't heal it either when you have fathers passing on bad blood to their children.

Cant agree that this is the wrong place to have the debate. In fact I think theres a greater level of revelation on here that you might not get on other platforms. Theres something to be had from being able to express your opinions on such a sensitive topic with relative anonymity.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Ya know whats interesting?

This spate of riots was sparked at a "peaceful" vigil for a man shot by the police...a man alleged to be a dangerous criminal...his community wanted to stand up and make a statement to the police/authorities that they werent happy with how they are being treated.

And then it kicked off...

Go back 30 odd years to NI....communities were making a peaceful stand against how they were being treated by the police/authorities.

And then it kicked off...

 

[bluetoo]

Ya know whats interesting?

This spate of riots was sparked at a "peaceful" vigil for a man shot by the police...a man alleged to be a dangerous criminal...his community wanted to stand up and make a statement to the police/authorities that they werent happy with how they are being treated.

And then it kicked off...

Go back 30 odd years to NI....communities were making a peaceful stand against how they were being treated by the police/authorities.

And then it kicked off...

lotta people should repeat the mantra....there but for the grace of god go I...shame its 40 years too late for some

 

[kinkysleftfoot]

Ya know whats interesting?

This spate of riots was sparked at a "peaceful" vigil for a man shot by the police...a man alleged to be a dangerous criminal...his community wanted to stand up and make a statement to the police/authorities that they werent happy with how they are being treated.

And then it kicked off...

Go back 30 odd years to NI....communities were making a peaceful stand against how they were being treated by the police/authorities.

And then it kicked off...

well said......hence my distaste for all those that want the army out on the streets.....took 30 years to get us off again!

 

[u2fme2]

I've spent the last 4 days in Sourh Armagh and met several people with first hand knowledge of the IRA and how it operated during the troubles. Seems to me that various the brigades waged a highly effective guerilla war against a well resourced modern army.

The tactics of some operations and the bravery of the volunteers involved is regarded highly by many military historains, and when you look at the country, and the security that was in place, it's not hard to see why.

I'm glad the war is over and have nothing but disgust for the dregs that killed Paul Quinn and those few that became thugs and worse afterwards. But when you look clearly at the IRA as a fighting force, it's hard not to have some respect.

and you think its over ???