The Labour Government

metalblue said:
My post was in response to the notion that you can work out how a party will govern by looking at how their run their councils.

As you rightly point out why Birmingham went tits up is down to the council trying to be a bit smart coupled with the funding cuts and has no bearing on how Labour govern. Similarly various councillors over the years have landed in a spot of hot water for questionable morals etc, again no reflection on how a party will govern.

There are many ways to make a case against Farage being the next PM, it was a strange attack line to pick from a usually good poster.
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No it wasn’t, it was a response to how a party will govern based on their councillors, I wonder if that’s why I didn’t make my point clear enough to you.

I made the same point about the governance of the council as a whole and my whole initial point was to question their councillors that have been elected - if seasoned councillors of any political persuasion with significant experience are clearly struggling, how is voting in people with no experience at all be of benefit? I could elaborate far further on that with how reform councillors are doing so far but the whole point was to ask people to do it themselves.

My underlying point to that and subsequent posts was if they can’t even put up candidates that know the daily running of a local council, how are they going to put up quality candidates capable of running a government? Not even that, they couldn’t even keep five MPs in line.

And it had nothing to do with Farage being PM, I didn’t mention the leadership at all. It’s entirely about competence in the party itself. Personally, although the political landscape has changed ridiculously recently and how most view it has become polticial in itself, I don’t. I’ve known brilliant councillors of every political persuasion. I can’t say that yet about reform and that’s why I said to keep an eye on them. If anyone’s been properly doing that so far, then it does not look good whatsoever.

Hopefully that explains my position more, but less of the last comment please, I think and hope I’ve always been courteous with you when I’ve not even disagreed with you but just pointed out you’ve been incorrect, I’d hope with opinions that could be extended further as I’ll always welcome a difference when it comes to that and respect that and why I felt the need to respond to your comment further.
 
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meltonblue said:
No it wasn’t, it was a response to how a party will govern based on their councillors, I wonder if that’s why I didn’t make my point clear enough to you.

I made the same point about the governance of the council as a whole and my whole initial point was to question their councillors that have been elected - if seasoned councillors of any political persuasion with significant experience are clearly struggling, how is voting in people with no experience at all be of benefit? I could elaborate far further on that with how reform councillors are doing so far but the whole point was to ask people to do it themselves.

My underlying point to that and subsequent posts was if they can’t even put up candidates that know the daily running of a local council, how are they going to put up quality candidates capable of running a government? Not even that, they couldn’t even keep five MPs in line.

And it had nothing to do with Farage being PM, I didn’t mention the leadership at all. It’s entirely about competence in the party itself. Personally, although the political landscape has changed ridiculously recently and how most view it has become polticial in itself, I don’t. I’ve known brilliant councillors of every political persuasion. I can’t say that yet about reform and that’s why I said to keep an eye on them. If anyone’s been properly doing that so far, then it does not look good whatsoever.

Hopefully that explains my position more, but less of the last comment please, I think and hope I’ve always been courteous with you when I’ve not even disagreed with you but just pointed out you’ve been incorrect, I’d hope with opinions that could be extended further as I’ll always welcome a difference when it comes to that and respect that and why I felt the need to respond to your comment further.
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The best thing any party could do to balance the council books would be to reduce life expectancy in order to save on adult social care. Easiest way to do that would be to dismantle the NHS....

Did someone on the thread say that Farage was suggesting we should have the French health system? I suppose living in France makes him an expert. Has he actually said "we could be like France" like he said "we could be like Norway" if we left the EU?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Speaks volumes.... shitting themselves, the upcoming Bi-election will be "interesting"... very interesting.

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Dial the volume down. That was in response to a "scenario" question from the interviewer, and Drakeford prefaced his reply with "Let's just assume for a moment that what you said is true". But you knew that, didn't you?

In another context Drakeford has said,

“Nothing is inevitable in politics. A year is a very long time. I don’t think I would use the word likely in relation to Reform. I’d use the word possible, because parties that mushroom up can also implode on one another – and there’s plenty of evidence of that in the past as well.

“Reform is essentially an English nationalist party, attempting to find a foothold for itself in Wales. My hope will be that the disinfectant that comes with sunlight when the spotlight is on them will expose some of that for what it is. And that is what happened when we had seven Ukippers whose company we enjoyed for five long years [between 2016 and 2021]..

“Not a single one of them survived the next election because as people saw them for what they were, that superficial and initial attractiveness wore off. So I don’t think we should be afraid of the way that democracy will deal with that threat.

“If there is a significant number of Reform people in the Senedd, they will be there to tear the institution down, rather than to make it a success. And that will place an additional obligation on progressive parties to come together to make sure that the Senedd can be run, that a government can be formed that can meet the needs of those people in Wales who have always preferred political parties on the part of the spectrum. So I think [the threat of Reform] will have an integrative effect on others.”
 
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Vic said:
Dial the volume down. That was in response to a "scenario" question from the interviewer, and Drakeford prefaced his reply with "Let's just assume for a moment that what you said is true". But you knew that, didn't you?

In another context Drakeford has said,

“Nothing is inevitable in politics. A year is a very long time. I don’t think I would use the word likely in relation to Reform. I’d use the word possible, because parties that mushroom up can also implode on one another – and there’s plenty of evidence of that in the past as well.

“Reform is essentially an English nationalist party, attempting to find a foothold for itself in Wales. My hope will be that the disinfectant that comes with sunlight when the spotlight is on them will expose some of that for what it is. And that is what happened when we had seven Ukippers whose company we enjoyed for five long years [between 2016 and 2021]..

“Not a single one of them survived the next election because as people saw them for what they were, that superficial and initial attractiveness wore off. So I don’t think we should be afraid of the way that democracy will deal with that threat.

“If there is a significant number of Reform people in the Senedd, they will be there to tear the institution down, rather than to make it a success. And that will place an additional obligation on progressive parties to come together to make sure that the Senedd can be run, that a government can be formed that can meet the needs of those people in Wales who have always preferred political parties on the part of the spectrum. So I think [the threat of Reform] will have an integrative effect on others.”
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Good to see some context, rather than the toxicity that some like to sow.
 
WestGorton said:
Economy slowly improving at a very marginal rate. Bar all the noise amd a few mistakes, they are decent so far.
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Yep. They are trying to tackle many underlying problems that desperately need tackling. So far, not successfully, but I think the intentions are bang on.

NHS - Reform desperately needed

Benefits - Target the one's who need it (disappointing that the WFA was backtracked). I use my WFA for my betting bank!

Immigration - If we got everyone in the country contributing then we would not need as much immigration. Isn't that what communism is based on? Everyone contributing what they can? We have all seen the ParaOlympics where these 'disabled' people can run, jump, swim faster and longer than any of us. What about Strictly Come Dancing, won by a deaf woman, a blind man and this year has a Downs Syndrome woman competing. I fully support Labours attempt to get everyone, no matter their illness or disability, to contribute. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Economy - Live inside your means. Common sense. Probably should have not ruled out raising all our taxes.

All in all. The most common sense government for a long time.
 
Palerider said:
Yep. They are trying to tackle many underlying problems that desperately need tackling. So far, not successfully, but I think the intentions are bang on.

NHS - Reform desperately needed

Benefits - Target the one's who need it (disappointing that the WFA was backtracked). I use my WFA for my betting bank!

Immigration - If we got everyone in the country contributing then we would not need as much immigration. Isn't that what communism is based on? Everyone contributing what they can? We have all seen the ParaOlympics where these 'disabled' people can run, jump, swim faster and longer than any of us. What about Strictly Come Dancing, won by a deaf woman, a blind man and this year has a Downs Syndrome woman competing. I fully support Labours attempt to get everyone, no matter their illness or disability, to contribute. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Economy - Live inside your means. Common sense. Probably should have not ruled out raising all our taxes.

All in all. The most common sense government for a long time.
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And a common sense post.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
.... and, is this not more or less what Starmer is doing?

Taking away/reducing benefits, WFA and freezing tax bands whilst allowing all the big oil/gas and power businesses and banks to carry on profiteering regardless.... not too far apart are they?
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I'm not here to defend Starmer/the current government, not a fan at all.

But if as you say they're not too far apart then why would you vote for a much riskier rinse and repeat? I get your anger but what you are proposing to do at the ballot box will imo ultimately be a huge act of self-harm. Better to spoil your ballot paper with a cock and balls drawing than stick your own into the blender.

Closer to the election I'll be looking to see what options exist to give the best chance of electoral reform without plunging the country into chaos. I agree it's not a great outlook but Reform really are not the answer (unless you are utterly minted and with little conscience because I can see how it could work out well for people in that position).
 
Palerider said:
Yep. They are trying to tackle many underlying problems that desperately need tackling. So far, not successfully, but I think the intentions are bang on.

NHS - Reform desperately needed

Benefits - Target the one's who need it (disappointing that the WFA was backtracked). I use my WFA for my betting bank!

Immigration - If we got everyone in the country contributing then we would not need as much immigration. Isn't that what communism is based on? Everyone contributing what they can? We have all seen the ParaOlympics where these 'disabled' people can run, jump, swim faster and longer than any of us. What about Strictly Come Dancing, won by a deaf woman, a blind man and this year has a Downs Syndrome woman competing. I fully support Labours attempt to get everyone, no matter their illness or disability, to contribute. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Economy - Live inside your means. Common sense. Probably should have not ruled out raising all our taxes.

All in all. The most common sense government for a long time.
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Exactly right, away from the all the noise and outrage by the pathetic reform crowd Labour are getting on with it.
 
west didsblue said:
Because he has an irrational hatred of Starmer. He prefers Donald Trump to Starmer which shows how irrational he is.
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My "irrational hatred" for Starmer is easily eclipsed by yours and other posters irrational logic that I am a Farage fan.... It's just great to know I have quality stalkers that cannot resist wheelling out the same old pointless crap.

Pointless you might ask.... well at no point (stalker no.1 off to check as is his want) have I ever pledged allegiance to Farage, it's just the historic record and performance of Labour and ories that push me that way...

Still if you guys get a lovely warm glow and a superiority complex from talking absolute rubbish, then I am really glad to be of service to you.

Have a nice day.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
My "irrational hatred" for Starmer is easily eclipsed by yours and other posters irrational logic that I am a Farage fan.... It's just great to know I have quality stalkers that cannot resist wheelling out the same old pointless crap.

Pointless you might ask.... well at no point (stalker no.1 off to check as is his want) have I ever pledged allegiance to Farage, it's just the historic record and performance of Labour and ories that push me that way...

Still if you guys get a lovely warm glow and a superiority complex from talking absolute rubbish, then I am really glad to be of service to you.

Have a nice day.
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Labour or no other party will drive you to Reform...that's just a lack of intelligence.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Corrected for you.

Your opinion, which is fair enough but you don't know what would drive other people to vote for any party..... the polls tell us we have a lot of unintelligent people the country.
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It's not one party that makes you vote for another party...that's just silly. How does that work? "I don't like this Labour Gov, so I'm going to vote for the worst of a bunch" ? The proven liars? Does Labour MAKE you fucking stupid?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Oh I forgot to mention that I need to drop Starmer a line to thank him for reducing my motor insurance this year... down from £345.04 down to £249.88.

Keep up the good work Keir.
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That's the Welsh 20mph limits, and low-traffic neighborhoods working through the system.
 
Marklr said:
It's not one party that makes you vote for another party...that's just silly. How does that work? "I don't like this Labour Gov, so I'm going to vote for the worst of a bunch" ? The proven liars? Does Labour MAKE you fucking stupid?
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The best of a very bad bunch, where the two main protagonists have failed spectacularly over the last twenty years...You do know the definition of madness don't you? Madness is to keep doing (voting) the same thing (voting Labour or Tories) and expecting a different result (outcome)

So in a two horse race you think the Tories or Labour are better then fine, vote for them if you must and show the world that you're mad.
 
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