The Labour Government

Blue and true said:
This thread is a thing of beauty, all these hardline Tories suddenly finding a conscience and tying themselves up in hypocritical knots.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they brought your conscience off eBay. But let’s see. Do you agree with WFA being removed from 1m pensioners living on under £269 a week? A quick search of this thread says you’ve been a bit quiet on it TBH.
 
Blue and true said:
I agree, let's see if he is as good as his word. I'll go on record by saying no politician, of any persuasion, should be claiming gifts off anyone. And I've already gone on record with criticism of the WFA being taken from many. But I'm not going to be drawn into the pontificating of GB News, of all outlets.

What I find funny are the numerous posters, and they know who they are, now expressing concern over the neediest in society being shat on; and for fifteen years prior they maintained radio silence on these issues.
Click to expand...

Ignore my last post. Answered
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I hadn't realised that the 100k total was over a 5 year period, rather than one year.
Some of the things are fine - the PL giving him Euro Final tickets is hardly a surprise. One of the sports events was given by City earlier this year, and they must therefore be up to something that needs Starmer.

According to the i, Cameron managed to rack up 60k when he was LOTO, and that was 2005-2010 - 100k from 2019-2024 looks quite reasonable in comparison.

inews.co.uk

Starmer's £100,000 of gifts and tickets - and how it compares to Sunak, Johnson and May

Keir Starmer's declared freebies are much higher than any of his predecessors, and higher than any other MP since 2019
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

I don't have a problem in hospitality from football clubs, etc. Clubs like Crystal Palace and Norwich give them out because it makes their other guests feel good about themselves.

The clothing thing is just plain odd. I don't understand the point.
Click to expand...
Clthing companies give free stuff to lots of people that are likelee to be photographed in their gear
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I hadn't realised that the 100k total was over a 5 year period, rather than one year.
Some of the things are fine - the PL giving him Euro Final tickets is hardly a surprise. One of the sports events was given by City earlier this year, and they must therefore be up to something that needs Starmer.

According to the i, Cameron managed to rack up 60k when he was LOTO, and that was 2005-2010 - 100k from 2019-2024 looks quite reasonable in comparison.

inews.co.uk

Starmer's £100,000 of gifts and tickets - and how it compares to Sunak, Johnson and May

Keir Starmer's declared freebies are much higher than any of his predecessors, and higher than any other MP since 2019
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

I don't have a problem in hospitality from football clubs, etc. Clubs like Crystal Palace and Norwich give them out because it makes their other guests feel good about themselves.

The clothing thing is just plain odd. I don't understand the point.
Click to expand...

My perspective is that this is just political naivety on Labour and Starmer's part. They are following a sort of historical precedent that the Conservatives established, as you've said Cameron did similar when he was LOTO. This is all generally within the rules of what is allowed by the system (perhaps with the exception of Johnson who seems to have maxed out the gravy boat to its extremis).

The problem is that the historical precedent, and the system in place, is looked on unfavourably by the general public. Starmer will know that many people in the services sector can't even accept a box of chocolates at Christmas for risk of the appearance of impropriety. So when they see politicians getting these kinds of gifts, it is going to leave a sour taste.

This should have been recognised at a far earlier stage. If Labour is going to stand on this platform of "putting the government back into the service of working people", then this is an open goal for undermining that position, as this could not be further from the experience of a working person.

It's still not even remotely in the same realm of blatant misuse of office we saw in the 14 years prior, but Labour have to understand they are being held to a higher standard whether they like it or not, that's just the reality of their position.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
My perspective is that this is just political naivety on Labour and Starmer's part. They are following a sort of historical precedent that the Conservatives established, as you've said Cameron did similar when he was LOTO. This is all generally within the rules of what is allowed by the system (perhaps with the exception of Johnson who seems to have maxed out the gravy boat to its extremis).

The problem is that the historical precedent, and the system in place, is looked on unfavourably by the general public. Starmer will know that many people in the services sector can't even accept a box of chocolates at Christmas for risk of the appearance of impropriety. So when they see politicians getting these kinds of gifts, it is going to leave a sour taste.

This should have been recognised at a far earlier stage. If Labour is going to stand on this platform of "putting the government back into the service of working people", then this is an open goal for undermining that position, as this could not be further from the experience of a working person.

It's still not even remotely in the same realm of blatant misuse of office we saw in the 14 years prior, but Labour have to understand they are being held to a higher standard whether they like it or not, that's just the reality of their position.
Click to expand...

This pretty much echos what you’re saying

www.bbc.co.uk

Keir Starmer's clothes row frustrates Labour insiders, Laura Kuenssberg writes

Sir Keir Starmer's top team have learnt the hard way that in politics, perception matters.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
ganganvince said:
Genuine question open to all, what sources are acceptable I see
GB news
BBC
The Telegraph
The Mail
The Sun
The Express
Have all been derided as sources recently.
Click to expand...
Not so much the source as the slant.

If you cannot show where gifts have bought benefits to the donor, then it might not be wise but it's not a "scandal" (as the BBC called it this morning). A scandal would be something like a Mayor of London giving his latest girlfriend business grants and taking her on "trade" trips without declaring the (adulterous) relationship.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
My perspective is that this is just political naivety on Labour and Starmer's part. They are following a sort of historical precedent that the Conservatives established, as you've said Cameron did similar when he was LOTO. This is all generally within the rules of what is allowed by the system (perhaps with the exception of Johnson who seems to have maxed out the gravy boat to its extremis).

The problem is that the historical precedent, and the system in place, is looked on unfavourably by the general public. Starmer will know that many people in the services sector can't even accept a box of chocolates at Christmas for risk of the appearance of impropriety. So when they see politicians getting these kinds of gifts, it is going to leave a sour taste.

This should have been recognised at a far earlier stage. If Labour is going to stand on this platform of "putting the government back into the service of working people", then this is an open goal for undermining that position, as this could not be further from the experience of a working person.

It's still not even remotely in the same realm of blatant misuse of office we saw in the 14 years prior, but Labour have to understand they are being held to a higher standard whether they like it or not, that's just the reality of their position.
Click to expand...

This really should be the definitive post on this subject and we should move on.
(I can live in hope!)
 
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