Labour has moved very quickly to being in government but not in power.Well Labour are the current Government with a massive majority so I'm not sure that's really classified as losing.
But if you'd read it again, I'm implying that whilst international open borders and a planetary style Government that could feasibly combine the resources of the entire world is a great idea in utopian terms, the reality of our political systems and human nature and the rest necessitate working in a somewhat more realistic context.
Is that so?So you definitely didn't want the Jews in the late 1800s and early 1900s coming here escaping pogroms, coming here taking our jobs and having people relying on the rates (welfare).
Or the Irish.
It's just history. The first legislation against open doors immigration was to restrict poor Jews coming into Britain. It's not racism, it's an economic and demographic argument that involves keeping out foreigners.Do people never ever get sick of reading someone else's opinion and then replying ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE NOT SECRETLY A RACIST THEN??
It must be utterly exhausting to live like that.
That’s great .It's like the United Nations where I live.
Everyone gets on just fine, with people from all over the world living next to me. I don't have a problem with it.
We all live under the same sky, and I'm struggling to think of anything I did years ago I can't do today, you know, like have a pint in the pub with my friends or nod and say 'good morning' to a stranger walking past me with a friendly smile on their face. You know, some of them aren't even British born and bred, but hey ho.
We queue up and make polite conversation like we always have, and everyone is just as friendly as I always remember them from years past. You can stick your divisive claptrap where the sun doesn't shine.
That’s great .
I am married to a Greek, the best man at my wedding came to the UK with his parents who were Ugandan Asians . My sisters partner is Ghanian and my nephew is of mixed race . My neighbours either side of me are Jewish , opposite are Indian. I have worked in and around North London for the best part of 40 years and many colleagues and good friends who are Muslims of various countries of origin . My personal life is conspicuous for good relations with people of all ethnicities, my daughter is human rights lawyer ffs ( oh what fun we have ) but so what ?
Does that make me oblivious to what I can see all around Western Europe?
Does that make me impervious to the fact that others lives are been blighted by migration ?
Does that mean I cannot see that out public finances, Health service, infrastructure cannot cope ?
No it doesn’t .
Who mentioned deportation?so what's the answer? Deport all your friends, neighbours and wife? Of course not. What your life illustrates is the value and enrichment of integration of ethnicities and religions in a free country - something denied to people who come here by a certain means - if you want something thats two tier there it is and that pre-dates Starmer as Labour PM
Spot on.Bob has the luxury of never thinking of such things, it's not an exaggeration to say that in left wing circles it's akin to thought crime to do so.
That's the beauty of doublethink.
With doublethink left wingers can fight for the right to self determination for indigenous groups in other parts of the world, including the right to preserve and celebrate their culture and so on, while simultaneously not doing so here in the UK and its constituent parts. Almost uniquely in the world, the left declares that in the UK there is no indigenous population, no prevailing culture to preserve and celebrate.
And how do they do this? They simply reclassify who we are.
And how do they do that?...
Newspeak.
So in Newspeak we're a country of immigrants, with no dominant culture, we're a multi cultural society and what history we have is one of colonialism and shame that we should condemn and disown.
Once you've completed these mental gymnastics its simple to be pro immigration, pro open borders. We're just an island of immigrants anyway, so what's the fuss about letting more in? Its just a continuation of what we've always done and borders? They're just an unnecessary bureaucratic hurdle.
You think I'm being OTT?
Go back and revisit the utterances of even mainstream Labour politicians like David Lammy and Sadiq Khan talking about ethnicity, nationality and immigration, when they talk about it at all that is. But if you want it in its purest form Owen Jones and Diane Abbott are where its at.
I have mentioned before Bob that I doubt your commitment to open borders would survive half a dozen Roma families moving into your road, actually I doubt it would take half a dozen.
Am I wrong ?
If you found your new Roma neighbours moving next door would you be straight round with a nice bottle of red and a bunch of flowers to welcome them?
Would you organise some integration classes for them so hopefully you could get them to refrain from spitting , defecating and urinating in your drive ? All in the name of open borders after all . Or would you sell up ?
I suspect you have never contemplated any of it because it is quite simply something you don't expect to ever contend with, however it is something you are happy for those less fortunate than yourself to have to suffer. Yet for those that have their lives blighted by immigration you have no empathy and offer crassly worded support for open borders.
How is your beloved EU dealing with open borders ? .
Paying the Libyan security forces to murder, torture, rape and terrorise African migrants in an attempt to prevent them reaching the Mediterranean coast.
The Eastern states are simply refusing migrants, asylum or not.
Poland sending 5,000 troops to their border with Germany to prevent migration flows, supported by self formed citizen groups.
The whole EU is inflamed with tension on migration.
But not an issue for you, you support open borders and its all working out fine.
Its like the last 30 years didn't happen.
Bob has the luxury of never thinking of such things, it's not an exaggeration to say that in left wing circles it's akin to thought crime to do so.
That's the beauty of doublethink.
With doublethink left wingers can fight for the right to self determination for indigenous groups in other parts of the world, including the right to preserve and celebrate their culture and so on, while simultaneously not doing so here in the UK and its constituent parts. Almost uniquely in the world, the left declares that in the UK there is no indigenous population, no prevailing culture to preserve and celebrate.
And how do they do this? They simply reclassify who we are.
And how do they do that?...
Newspeak.
So in Newspeak we're a country of immigrants, with no dominant culture, we're a multi cultural society and what history we have is one of colonialism and shame that we should condemn and disown.
Once you've completed these mental gymnastics its simple to be pro immigration, pro open borders. We're just an island of immigrants anyway, so what's the fuss about letting more in? Its just a continuation of what we've always done and borders? They're just an unnecessary bureaucratic hurdle.
You think I'm being OTT?
Go back and revisit the utterances of even mainstream Labour politicians like David Lammy and Sadiq Khan talking about ethnicity, nationality and immigration, when they talk about it at all that is. But if you want it in its purest form Owen Jones and Diane Abbott are where its at.
I'm sorry. I just didn't recognise the idea that multicultural means we don't celebrate "indigenous" culture in the UK. What did you have in mind that we should celebrate that we don't?Is that so?
Nothing I wrote could objectively lead you to that conclusion.
Being reactionary is not the exclusive preserve of right wingers, bigots and racists.
And none of them are remotely concerned about uncontrolled migration are they.There are currently 31 countries within the Schengen zone. That’s 450 million people who travel freely between countries without border controls.
Do you recognise we have an indigenous population in this country? And that we have an indigenous culture with regional and national variations?I'm sorry. I just didn't recognise the idea that multicultural means we don't celebrate "indigenous" culture in the UK. What did you have in mind that we should celebrate that we don't?
Ignorance is strength.There are 31 countries and 450 million people living in the Schengen zone. That’s 31 different countries, languages and cultures extending back millennia. What the fuck are you babbling about?
And that it is important that our ethnicity is celebrated and protected. Thousands of years of culture, history and tradition is not something trivial to be tossed away and lost forever.Do you recognise we have an indigenous population in this country? And that we have an indigenous culture with regional and national variations?
So why didn't you say that in your previous post? That previous post implied that immigration was a wholly bad thing and that multiculturalism doesn't work.That’s great .
I am married to a Greek, the best man at my wedding came to the UK with his parents who were Ugandan Asians . My sisters partner is Ghanian and my nephew is of mixed race . My neighbours either side of me are Jewish , opposite are Indian. I have worked in and around North London for the best part of 40 years and many colleagues and good friends who are Muslims of various countries of origin . My personal life is conspicuous for good relations with people of all ethnicities, my daughter is human rights lawyer ffs ( oh what fun we have ) but so what ?
Does that make me oblivious to what I can see all around Western Europe?
Does that make me impervious to the fact that others lives are been blighted by migration ?
Does that mean I cannot see that out public finances, Health service, infrastructure cannot cope ?
No it doesn’t .
Indeed - and the people who produce this report, apparently take their data from a small, unrepresentative sample of people they "think" are millionaires, and look at where they put down as their main work location on LinkedIn.
They also seem either not to understand how samples work, or just don't care if it's accurate (which I suspect is the case*), as they're extrapolating a tiny sample to the whole population, despite the sample being unrepresentative. So, last year they predicted around 9000 net would leave, based on around 0.008% of "millionaires" in their sample changing their work location (about 50 people). Given that 9000 is 1.5% of their estimate of total millionaires, the margin of error would make the figure almost pointless, even if the sample was representative. Yet they admit that they do nothing at all to make it representative - making it not much more accurate than throwing a dart at a board.
It's essentially the good old advertisement dressed up as news. A few decades ago, newspapers would have people who understood this, and would have seen through it. Now we have people who just need to fill pages, and are happy to reprint whatever rubbish they get sent.
EDIT: *I've just listened to an interview with the "researchers", and I was wrong. He genuinely doesn't know how samples work.
Who mentioned deportation?
Er, precisely the point.
The Earth is a balanced system. It is full of negative feedback loops that regulate things and keep it stable. Were that not the case, the climate would have spiralled out of control - turning into an ice ball, or all the atmosphere boiling off - billions of years ago. It hasn't.
Think of it like a bowl spinning on top of a stick. If the bowl is the normal way up, balanced precariously, and you knock the bowl and it falls off. With the bowl upside down, it wobbles but then settles down again and stays on. It's a stable system. Same with the earth: increase CO2, you increase plant growth, which accelerates CO2 absorption and things stabilise again.
We've dumped a shed load of CO2 into the atmosphere recently but it's still at 426 parts per million. That 0.0426%. It's a pitifully small amount. 500 million years ago, it was more than 10x this amount, and life is still here.
Anyway, since we've increased CO2 by 50% over the last 200 years, it takes the planet time to adjust. In another 100 years or so, it will have mopped up all the excess CO2 and temperatures will start dropping again. We'll possibly end up with another mini ice age.
This is not just some bollocks on a football forum, btw. You can read up about it if you like.
Chippy_boy
Associate of the Royal College of Science.
B.Sc Hons (1st Class)
Physics inc Atmospheric Physics, Imperial College
yet if I were to fly a Union Jack outside my house, I'd likely be branded as a racist white supremacist.
And none of them are remotely concerned about uncontrolled migration are they.
Wolfgang Sobotka (Austria): President of the Austrian National Council “The Schengen area is de facto dead,” citing the inability of member states to trust each other’s border management. Austria, along with several other countries, has reinstated border controls, arguing that migration has undermined confidence in the system.
Germany and France: Both countries have reintroduced border checks in response to migration surges and terror threats. Germany, in particular, has tightened borders with Poland and the Czech Republic, citing failures in EU border management.