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The Labour Government
- Thread starter SkyBlueFlux
- Start date
Just my opinionAnd you are an expert over everyone else why exactly?
hilts
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion
Its generally helps if its actually based on something more than convenient wishful thinking, there is also the very good chance it's not an opinion at all.
I have mentioned before Bob that I doubt your commitment to open borders would survive half a dozen Roma families moving into your road, actually I doubt it would take half a dozen.
Am I wrong ?
If you found your new Roma neighbours moving next door would you be straight round with a nice bottle of red and a bunch of flowers to welcome them?
Would you organise some integration classes for them so hopefully you could get them to refrain from spitting , defecating and urinating in your drive ? All in the name of open borders after all . Or would you sell up ?
I suspect you have never contemplated any of it because it is quite simply something you don't expect to ever contend with, however it is something you are happy for those less fortunate than yourself to have to suffer. Yet for those that have their lives blighted by immigration you have no empathy and offer crassly worded support for open borders.
How is your beloved EU dealing with open borders ? .
Paying the Libyan security forces to murder, torture, rape and terrorise African migrants in an attempt to prevent them reaching the Mediterranean coast.
The Eastern states are simply refusing migrants, asylum or not.
Poland sending 5,000 troops to their border with Germany to prevent migration flows, supported by self formed citizen groups.
The whole EU is inflamed with tension on migration.
But not an issue for you, you support open borders and its all working out fine.
Its like the last 30 years didn't happen.
Bob is correct that international open borders is the best political solution for everybody. The problem is that that is step #5867 and we're on step #16. You can't jump ahead, the world isn't ready for this, the economies of the world are FAR FAR too unbalanced for this to work.
The perfect fumble
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 26,132
I have mentioned before Bob that I doubt your commitment to open borders would survive half a dozen Roma families moving into your road, actually I doubt it would take half a dozen.
Am I wrong ?
If you found your new Roma neighbours moving next door would you be straight round with a nice bottle of red and a bunch of flowers to welcome them?
Would you organise some integration classes for them so hopefully you could get them to refrain from spitting , defecating and urinating in your drive ? All in the name of open borders after all . Or would you sell up ?
I suspect you have never contemplated any of it because it is quite simply something you don't expect to ever contend with, however it is something you are happy for those less fortunate than yourself to have to suffer. Yet for those that have their lives blighted by immigration you have no empathy and offer crassly worded support for open borders.
How is your beloved EU dealing with open borders ? .
Paying the Libyan security forces to murder, torture, rape and terrorise African migrants in an attempt to prevent them reaching the Mediterranean coast.
The Eastern states are simply refusing migrants, asylum or not.
Poland sending 5,000 troops to their border with Germany to prevent migration flows, supported by self formed citizen groups.
The whole EU is inflamed with tension on migration.
But not an issue for you, you support open borders and its all working out fine.
Its like the last 30 years didn't happen.
Bob has the luxury of never thinking of such things, it's not an exaggeration to say that in left wing circles it's akin to thought crime to do so.
That's the beauty of doublethink.
With doublethink left wingers can fight for the right to self determination for indigenous groups in other parts of the world, including the right to preserve and celebrate their culture and so on, while simultaneously not doing so here in the UK and its constituent parts. Almost uniquely in the world, the left declares that in the UK there is no indigenous population, no prevailing culture to preserve and celebrate.
And how do they do this? They simply reclassify who we are.
And how do they do that?...
Newspeak.
So in Newspeak we're a country of immigrants, with no dominant culture, we're a multi cultural society and what history we have is one of colonialism and shame that we should condemn and disown.
Once you've completed these mental gymnastics its simple to be pro immigration, pro open borders. We're just an island of immigrants anyway, so what's the fuss about letting more in? Its just a continuation of what we've always done and borders? They're just an unnecessary bureaucratic hurdle.
You think I'm being OTT?
Go back and revisit the utterances of even mainstream Labour politicians like David Lammy and Sadiq Khan talking about ethnicity, nationality and immigration, when they talk about it at all that is. But if you want it in its purest form Owen Jones and Diane Abbott are where it's at.
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The fly in the ointment is Welfare .Bob is correct that international open borders is the best political solution for everybody. The problem is that that is step #5867 and we're on step #16. You can't jump ahead, the world isn't ready for this, the economies of the world are FAR FAR too unbalanced for this to work.
You can have open borders or Welfare but not both.
The numbers would look very different without Welfare and the dynamic would also be different. We literally suffocate potentially hard working and ambitious migrants with Welfare who quickly learn that hard work doesn’t necessarily pay.
The perfect fumble
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 26,132
Not much love for the nation state then.Bob is correct that international open borders is the best political solution for everybody.
And you wonder why you lose.
So you definitely didn't want the Jews in the late 1800s and early 1900s coming here escaping pogroms, coming here taking our jobs and having people relying on the rates (welfare).Bob has the luxury of never thinking of such things, it's not an exaggeration to say that in left wing circles it's akin to thought crime to do so.
That's the beauty of doublethink.
With doublethink left wingers can fight for the right to self determination for indigenous groups in other parts of the world, including the right to preserve and celebrate their culture and so on, while simultaneously not doing so here in the UK and its constituent parts. Almost uniquely in the world, the left declares that in the UK there is no indigenous population, no prevailing culture to preserve and celebrate.
And how do they do this? They simply reclassify who we are.
And how do they do that?...
Newspeak.
So in Newspeak we're a country of immigrants, with no dominant culture, we're a multi cultural society and what history we have is one of colonialism and shame that we should condemn and disown.
Once you've completed these mental gymnastics its simple to be pro immigration, pro open borders. We're just an island of immigrants anyway, so what's the fuss about letting more in? Its just a continuation of what we've always done and borders? They're just an unnecessary bureaucratic hurdle.
You think I'm being OTT?
Go back and revisit the utterances of even mainstream Labour politicians like David Lammy and Sadiq Khan talking about ethnicity, nationality and immigration, when they talk about it at all that is. But if you want it in its purest form Owen Jones and Diane Abbott are where its at.
Or the Irish.
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Well Labour are the current Government with a massive majority so I'm not sure that's really classified as losing.Not much love for the nation state then.
And you wonder why you lose.
But if you'd read it again, I'm implying that whilst international open borders and a planetary style Government that could feasibly combine the resources of the entire world is a great idea in utopian terms, the reality of our political systems and human nature and the rest necessitate working in a somewhat more realistic context.
How can they learn anything if they've been literally suffocated?The fly in the ointment is Welfare .
You can have open borders or Welfare but not both.
The numbers would look very different without Welfare and the dynamic would also be different. We literally suffocate potentially hard working and ambitious migrants with Welfare who quickly learn that hard work doesn’t necessarily pay.
Do people never ever get sick of reading someone else's opinion and then replying ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE NOT SECRETLY A RACIST THEN??So you definitely didn't want the Jews in the late 1800s and early 1900s coming here escaping pogroms.
It must be utterly exhausting to live like that.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Lol right back, but thanks.Lol, Well done on your academic achievements.
Unless anyone can beat that I think that at least by Bluemoon standards that must confer expert status to Chippy.
TBF I graduated in 1982, so have forgotten most of it now.
Agree with @hilts let's get back on topic: The Labour Party... In all it's glory.
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inbetween
Guest
The stupidity of our immigration policy is when people say that immigration drives growth but where is the growth? Germany took 2 million immigrants in a matter of years and Germany hasn't grown for 2 years. The one major country in Europe that has actually grown very fast is Poland and Poland is putting up borders and not taking them down.Once you've completed these mental gymnastics its simple to be pro immigration, pro open borders. We're just an island of immigrants anyway, so what's the fuss about letting more in? Its just a continuation of what we've always done and borders? They're just an unnecessary bureaucratic hurdle.
You think I'm being OTT?
Go back and revisit the utterances of even mainstream Labour politicians like David Lammy and Sadiq Khan talking about ethnicity, nationality and immigration, when they talk about it at all that is. But if you want it in its purest form Owen Jones and Diane Abbott are where its at.
Immigration is needed but it should be purposeful. The nonsense around asylum has been yet another political identity issue where people are arguing to take in tens of thousands of people who have nothing and bring with them nothing. We should fulfil our legal obligations but anybody can understand the anger given the ridiculous cost of it all.
Either way many of these arguments are useless because voters will one day have their say and right now it's quite obvious that no pro-immigration party can win. Labour aren't even pro-immigration today and polls have them down as losing over 250 seats, the Tories are even worse. The only winner will be Farage if Reform hasn't imploded by then.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
You've never done that have you mate.Instead of acknowledging how he got that completely wrong he will instead ignore.
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inbetween
Guest
You say that but there are 85 Sharia councils in the UK.But but ............Sharia Law
Social religious based oppression is not only seemingly now a right but it's to be protected and encouraged apparently.
BlueHammer85
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 13 Oct 2010
- Messages
- 41,018
You've never done that have you mate.
Not that i can recall.
Already fixed. And expanded a bit.The Jews escaped POGROMS. They quite liked radio.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Same where I live mate. But I have to accept, that is not the experience of everyone. You and I are lucky.It's like the United Nations where I live.
Everyone gets on just fine, with people from all over the world living next to me. I don't have a problem with it.
We all live under the same sky, and I'm struggling to think of anything I did years ago I can't do today, you know, like have a pint in the pub with my friends or nod and say 'good morning' to a stranger walking past me with a friendly smile on their face. You know, some of them aren't even British born and bred, but hey ho.
We queue up and make polite conversation like we always have, and everyone is just as friendly as I always remember them from years past. You can stick your divisive claptrap where the sun doesn't shine.
My brother-in-law lives in a small terraced house near Bristol. He's had numerous immigrants move in (and out) next door over the years and at times it has made his life absolute hell. One lot has about 8 adults living in the house (a 3 bed) coming and going 24 hours a day, playing loud music all hours, dealing drugs and smoking weed stinking to place out constantly. He complained to the police and council repeatedly and nothing was done. They were basically pond life. Thankfully they moved on. Now he just has to put up with new foreign neighbours who also smoke weed all day in the garden which stinks the place out. Ironically next door but one is a lady cop. She does nothing.
His wife works at Tesco. She works nights and is one of the few English people there. The biggest faction is Chinese. They don't speak to her or mix in at all. Most of the other foreign workers are similar. She used to enjoy working there - she's worked for Tesco for 30 years. Now she hates it. For many years now, immigrants have ruined their domestic and working lives. They were non-political and never voted, but now will vote for anyone who promises to do something about mass migration.
The perfect fumble
Well-Known Member
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- 26,132
Labour has moved very quickly to being in government but not in power.Well Labour are the current Government with a massive majority so I'm not sure that's really classified as losing.
But if you'd read it again, I'm implying that whilst international open borders and a planetary style Government that could feasibly combine the resources of the entire world is a great idea in utopian terms, the reality of our political systems and human nature and the rest necessitate working in a somewhat more realistic context.
As for planetary style government? Well it works in Star Trek so that's a plus.
I'll bring it up at the next struggle session.