The Labour Government

Worsleyweb said:
I see everything that points to big lazy state, low growth and more debt. More entitlement and more laziness.
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Highest ever taxes and highest ever debt under the party you voted for. While at the same time providing the worst public services in living memory. Your party doesn't get rid of handouts, it just shifts them from the needy to the wealthy. At least with Labour, you usually get something for your taxes rather than seeing them syphoned off into the pockets of billionaires and they literally pump our country full of shit.
 
hilts said:
I'm a mere working class plumber with a detached house in suburbia a beemer and an audi for the wife and the foreign holiday this year along with the private school fees almost made us cut back on the Isa's or Chantelle's uni fund/mini Cooper.

Won't someone please think of the working class.
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:-)
 
hilts said:
Is that coz you made it thru hard work and guile without a handout in your life?
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This is not to have a pop at Brewie because I don't know him and he may be one of the miniscule proportion of people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and still do very well for themselves solely on merit. However there is now a metric shit tonne of research and data that indicates people who have done well for themselves and believe this is down to their own merit rather than the result of economic, cultural and social forces and attendent luck and/or privilege are basically deluded. There's all sorts of complex computer models and simulations that illustrate how much luck or unearned advantage is involved.

Interestingly there's emerging evidence that the greater the levels of inequality in a society the more deluded the rich in that society are about the level of personal merit associated with their wealth.

There are exceptional people in the world but typically they tend to be people who've taken a bullet (metaphorically or literally) for people they don't even know, as opposed to having a nice gaff in Cheshire with a Porsche on the drive.
 
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I'm With Stupid said:
Absolutely, but that's often because of factors beyond the control of the school. The reality is that private school is self-selecting not just for income, but also for parents who really give a shit about their kids education, and are in a stable situation. And I think kids like that would almost certainly thrive in any school you put them in.
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I agree with this:

"The reality is that private school is self-selecting not just for income, but also for parents who really give a shit about their kids education"

But this is nonsense:

"kids like that would almost certainly thrive in any school you put them in."
 
BrianW said:
Kids in poor areas aren't going to be whisked off to Eton, or even a minor private school.

People in poor areas simply cannot afford such luxuries. So if you're worried about kids in poor areas, you're looking in the wrong book, so to speak. The only way to help those kids is to improve the state system. (Though a major factor in such areas is a lack of educational capital. Homes without a single book and so on. It's not just the school.)

Indeed, school is only part of education. I went to a chaotic grammar school where if you weren't a scientist the Headmaster had no real interest in you. Half the teachers (at least) were downright useless and would not be allowed in the profession now. To a very large extent, I educated myself. Quite literally. My parents were supportive, but we were not exactly rolling in cash and neither had a brilliant education themselves.

I honestly believe the modern state system is far better than it was in the 1960s, if you take it all round. (Which many people don't.) It is, however, grossly underfunded. And I mean grossly. So if you want to help disadvantaged children, you need more funds in there. What Labour is trying to do is give 50p where £5 is needed, but apparently, that's all we can afford, and many seem to resent even that.
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I agree with you here. We must be realistic.

unfortunately the state schools that need the most support - those which have to deal with families who are amongst the most deprived in the country - have the least resoures.

And so the cycle continues.

I never said I had an answer, just personal perspective.
 
law74 said:
Can they not take the fiscal advice of Lord Cameron and sell off some land or buildings?
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"So how did these schools come by all this land? Ironically, in many cases, the founders wanted to create educational opportunities for poor children, or bring them into the church."

Original charitable purposes subverted by the rich for the rich.

www.theguardian.com

How England’s top private schools came to own 38,000 acres of land

Students at top fee-paying institutions benefit from centuries of philanthropy originally intended to help the poor
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
PPT said:
I’m one of them mate. Brought up in a 2 up and 2 down with an outside toilet in Clayton and left school without a single GCE. That working class enough for you?
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That was then. You were working class. Is the son of a toolmaker who becomes a top lawyer still working class?
 
This is without doubt my favourite thread on here for a long long time.

The sight of angry wankers wailing and gnashing their teeth because a teeny tiny part of their personal gravy train is being turned off in order to provide a bare modicum of help to the vast majority is, frankly, really rather wonderful to behold.

Please keep it up lads. And be thankful I’m not the PM. I’d not just put VAT on private school fees, I’d backdate it to the first term your child(ren) attended one. And if your precious was now in upper sixth and started in the upper third or even earlier you’d be looking at 7-12 years of backdated taxes. I’d also make it the law that if you refused, or were unwilling to pay, in full, right away, I’d put a lien on the family home.

I’d also increase the vat rate to 100% so instead of whining that you might have to finally pay the going rate for giving your child an inbuilt advantage for the rest of its life, just be thankful that Sir Kier is being vastly more reasonable than you deserve.

And pipe down. It’s unbecoming of you, all this wailing. What happened to the good old fashioned British stiff upper lip?

Bunch of mard arses. You lost. Heavily. Get over it.

Pay up and shut up.
 
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