The Labour Government

BlueHammer85 said:
The problem is how do you highlight positivity ? Tell any reform voter that Labour are stabilising the economy, interest rates are down, trade deals done with US/India, positive reform bills etc etc and they won’t give one toss, it will be what about the winter fuel and the boats.
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You're right.

Their mind has been made up and won't change unless Starmer goes full trump and starts showing Hollywood style propaganda videos of these 'terrorists' being dealt with. Then they can call him the fascist with their projection media.
 
Kompany Car said:
The problem is that when you negotiate it should be two way, with both parties strengthening their position. That should have meant both the doctors and train drivers having significant contractual changes which in the case of doctors to tie them into the NHS for a longer period after graduation and training. As regards the train drivers there should have been other significant concessions around working practices.

Instead it does look like an appeasement rather than a negotiation, which leaves the government open to more negotiation at gunpoint in the future by the unions.

As regards your point re interest rates the government does not set interest rates its purely down to the BoE and has been since 1997. For the government to intervene there is legislation that allows it but it would require an extreme situation and it would be national news if they used it.

The reduction that we have just seen is due to fears of the uncertainty within the economy. The idea being it should start to stimulate investment which is slowing down.
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I can agree that there may well me issues that would benefit us when negotiating with junior doctors or train drivers, but I'm not sure that can be the case every negotiation.

Wages need to go up over time, but you can't have more onerous conditions, or erode workers rights continually.

For the Junior Doctors, they were arguing that their real term wages had dropped significantly under the Tories, which appears to be the case. The increases from Labour only made up some of that gap, and we're talking about a group of people who are known to work incredibly hard for long hours.

At some point the rhetoric of "we'll keep coming back for more and more", also meets the reality that Labour are most likely to gradually increase their pay.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Why ? Lower interest rates reap a load of benefits for home buyers, owners, Goverment spending and cost of borrowing. It’s good news.
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If a Tory was hailing the lowering of interest rates to combat an economic slowdown/recession as a sign of their success, we'd rightly all be laughing at them. Interest rates coming down is a good thing but it's not something Labour can claim any glory for in this instance.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
The problem is how do you highlight positivity ? Tell any reform voter that Labour are stabilising the economy, interest rates are down, trade deals done with US/India, positive reform bills etc etc and they won’t give one toss, it will be what about the winter fuel and the boats.
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There was some interesting polling on Reform voters just this week. Their 2024 voters I suspect are very unlikely to vote Labour, but the new ones are mostly disillusioned, rather than pure Faragists.

Given that Labour are clearly not going to change the country in ten months, there's at least a reasonable chance of these voters changing their minds if things do gradually get better (the same with Labour >LD/Green switchers).

 
bluenova said:
I can agree that there may well me issues that would benefit us when negotiating with junior doctors or train drivers, but I'm not sure that can be the case every negotiation.

Wages need to go up over time, but you can't have more onerous conditions, or erode workers rights continually.

For the Junior Doctors, they were arguing that their real term wages had dropped significantly under the Tories, which appears to be the case. The increases from Labour only made up some of that gap, and we're talking about a group of people who are known to work incredibly hard for long hours.

At some point the rhetoric of "we'll keep coming back for more and more", also meets the reality that Labour are most likely to gradually increase their pay.
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Of course wages should increase broadly in line with inflation, that is only reasonable. The problem is the figures the BMA applied were against RPI which is a poor measure of actual inflation for the individual and actively discouraged from being used by the ONS (its a historic measure), CPIH is much more realistic, which actually gives a figure nearer to 18% which needed to be restored. 22.3% would seem overly generous, particularly when with the same breath we were being told about a 22Bn deficit that required difficult decisions. Plugging the issue of junior doctors training at the expense of the UK to then ply their trade elsewhere could have been resolved as part of this and hence it seems like a missed opportunity.

It never fails to surprise me when people talk about junior doctors and needing more that the universities are oversubscribed with graduates wanting to do medical degrees but they limit the number places which artificially constrains supply.

Meanwhile we have qualified doctors saying they cant find jobs according to the Royal College Of GPs. https://www.rcgp.org.uk/news/member-research-jobsearch-struggle
 
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Dubai Blue said:
If a Tory was hailing the lowering of interest rates to combat an economic slowdown/recession as a sign of their success, we'd rightly all be laughing at them. Interest rates coming down is a good thing but it's not something Labour can claim any glory for in this instance.
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I wouldn’t care if it was under Labour or Tories, interest rates coming down is good for this country and should start a signal for economic growth, throw in the trade deals with India and the US I would say it’s been a pretty economically good week for Britain, however I understand anything remotely positive is frowned upon here.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
I wouldn’t care if it was under Labour or Tories, interest rates coming down is good for this country and should start a signal for economic growth, throw in the trade deals with India and the US I would say it’s been a pretty economically good week for Britain, however I understand anything remotely positive is frowned upon here.
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I didn't say interest rates coming down is not a good thing. If you'd just left it at that I wouldn't have replied, but you felt the need to paint it as one of Labour's achievements. I agree with the other successes you've pointed out, but this one's a stretch in my opinion.
 
stonerblue said:
You want 'healthy debate' yet come out with this shit attacking posters ??
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Well, if you care to look back at his history all he ever does is tell me what I think and call me a right wing radical Reform supporter - despite trying to explain why I don't like or trust Labour. But I guess the point you make is valid to a degree, though some people just won't accept there can be an alternative point of view to their own.
 
tweety said:
I'm guessing you're an Islington labour luvvie that can't remember when the labour party represented the working class.
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Wouldn’t quite class Dartford as Islington, I voted for Corbyn previously, I agree with socialist ideals , however as a compromise I’m relieved this current Labour government is in charge after the 14 years of Tories and the rise of Reform- they are doing good but up against a tidal wave of constant abuse and negativity from the press and social media.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
however I understand anything remotely positive is frowned upon here.
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The problem is that every single announcement by some posters is hailed as a great success when in reality we dont know if it is, there is no data to prove it or in the case of interest rates not the decision of the government.

The Labour government have had some really positive success and moves in the right direction, particularly with :
  • Breakfast clubs for kids
  • Renters rights (which was desperately needed)
  • Child poverty task force
Others are a wait and see, the information around the NHS waiting list coming down for instance seems to be a bit disingenuous when you look at the actual data behind it, same with deportations. Obviously there is lots of political spin and playing with numbers as with any government.

https://fullfact.org/health/streeting-powell-people-cases/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyw8jw11jwo

Thats not to say it wont improve but things move at a glacial speed with any of these things.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Interesting, and I do support Keir in doing a deal with "Donald", you know the "Orange Gibbon" or something like that as the Labour supporters on here like to say.....

Are you all happy... ?
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If it is in the best interests of the country, then yes.

This is the key part of politics, Joe, not the continued identity politics nonsense.
 
Interesting, and I do support Keir in doing a deal with "Donald", you know the "Orange Gibbon" or something like that as the Labour supporters on here like to say.....

BigJoe#1 said:
Are you all happy... ?
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It's a bit like going to the swamp to watch a derby. You know you've got to hold your nose but hope the result will be a good one. As usual the devil will be in the detail. At the press conference the Americans are already talking about "exponential growth" for their ranchers and farmers.
 
I guess the devil will be in the detail, but if we are letting US beef and chicken in, I hope someone is able to explain how food that wasn't deemed safe yesterday is safe today.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Interesting, and I do support Keir in doing a deal with "Donald", you know the "Orange Gibbon" or something like that as the Labour supporters on here like to say.....

Are you all happy... ?
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The irony that these deals with India and America wouldn’t have been possible without Brexit isn’t lost on Brexit voters. Really looking forward to my bison burgers…
 
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