The Labour Government

The Future’s Blue! said:
I suppose it was another benefit of leaving the EU. More people in the UK getting poorer.
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And yet since we left the UK economy has done better than any G7 country in the EU. Perhaps it's the Government that was is the issue? Wealth or tax distribution, or possibly the reluctance to borrow more money like France ?
 
metalblue said:
Can only applaud the infrastructure spends. Whatever anyone thinks of the individual projects this is great news.

Infrastructure spends (usually) are the only things that give 100% return on investment. Unless it’s in things like HS2 that gets cancelled half way through of course.
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Yes definitely worth the investment, the only issue will be the inevitable woeful mismanagement that seemingly comes with all UK infrastructure projects. Crossrail, Hinckley Point, HS2 and the 2nd Dartford Crossing amougst many others are all massively over budget and behind schedule by years.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Yes definitely worth the investment, the only issue will be the inevitable woeful mismanagement that seemingly comes with all UK infrastructure projects. Crossrail, Hinckley Point, HS2 and the 2nd Dartford Crossing amougst many others are all massively over budget and behind schedule by years.
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Crossrail was around 25% over budget. I think that’s pretty good for a major infrastructure project, especially one in a densely populated city.
 
BobKowalski said:
Crossrail was around 25% over budget. I think that’s pretty good for a major infrastructure project, especially one in a densely populated city.
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28% equating to £4B and three and half years late. I'm struggling somewhat to see how that equates to pretty good. You should also remember that the initial estimates took account of the issue you mentioned above.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
28% equating to £4B and three and half years late. I'm struggling somewhat to see how that equates to pretty good. You should also remember that the initial estimates took account of the issue you mentioned above.
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Because it is pretty good for a major project and the economic growth it will bring to London over the years will make it worthwhile. Crossrail is worth it at £18b especially when weighed against the benefits.
 
BobKowalski said:
Because it is pretty good for a major project and the economic growth it will bring to London over the years will make it worthwhile. Crossrail is worth it at £18b especially when weighed against the benefits.
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I
Crossrail is a good project , but you appear to getting confused between having a good project and going over budget by 28% which isn't a good idea. Next you will be telling me the 3 and half year programme over run was also good?
 
tweety said:
How patronising to all the people who lost their jobs.
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But not to the children with breathing problems.

welshbusinessnews.co.uk

WHO finds Port Talbot 'most polluted' place in the UK - Welsh Business News

Data released today by the World Health Organisations shows that South Wales steel town, Port Talbot has the worst levels of air pollution in the UK. However, it isn’t only in South Wales that residents should be concerned. 47 towns and cities across the UK were found to either match or exceed...
welshbusinessnews.co.uk
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
And yet since we left the UK economy has done better than any G7 country in the EU. Perhaps it's the Government that was is the issue? Wealth or tax distribution, or possibly the reluctance to borrow more money like France ?
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Oh, I’m not complaining about Brexit, just with a view to Tata. I seem to remember that they warned of issues due to the majority of steel being sold to the EU, therefore having an impact in the future. They then just let the furnaces run down, failing to replace them at the end of life, taking a huge chunk of money from us before taking all their custom to other furnaces overseas (Belgium, Holland, India?)

WRT Brexit, even though we may have done slightly better than some others in the EU, it’s factual that it’s knocked a huge chunk off our economy. We could have come out of it much better, but like you say, that was down to a hostile government.

However, that’s what we voted for, and we live with it.

Good to see, imo, that we’re building bridges and I’d love to see our businesses being able to trade much more easily with our former partners.
 
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Vic said:
But not to the children with breathing problems.

welshbusinessnews.co.uk

WHO finds Port Talbot 'most polluted' place in the UK - Welsh Business News

Data released today by the World Health Organisations shows that South Wales steel town, Port Talbot has the worst levels of air pollution in the UK. However, it isn’t only in South Wales that residents should be concerned. 47 towns and cities across the UK were found to either match or exceed...
welshbusinessnews.co.uk
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Now their parents don't have jobs so the children are more likely in poverty ?

Are you really trying to justify closing down an major employer using this metric. It's looking desperate Vic.

Sometimes its best to put your hands up and say yes that was a mistake. We both know you would definitely be saying that if the Conservatives were still in power.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Oh, I’m not complaining about Brexit, just with a view to Tata. I seem to remember that they warned of issues due to the majority of steel being sold to the EU, therefore having an impact in the future. They then just let the furnaces run down, failing to replace them at the end of life, taking a huge chunk of money from us before taking all their custom to other furnaces overseas (Belgium, Holland, India?)

WRT Brexit, even though we may have done slightly better than the some others in the EU, it’s factual that it’s knocked a huge chunk off our economy. We could have come out of it much better, but like you say, that was down to a hostile government.

However, that’s what we voted for, and we live with it.

Good to see, imo, that we’re building bridges and I’d love to see our businesses being able to trade with much more easily with our former partners.
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I agree entirely with your last point, we do need to build bridges and trading relationships with the EU. Especially with Trump in power in the US.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I
Crossrail is a good project , but you appear to getting confused between having a good project and going over budget by 28% which isn't a good idea. Next you will be telling me the 3 and half year programme over run was also good?
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I expect a major infrastructure project, especially one in the heart of London, to overrun and be over budget. That it’s three years and 28% is pretty good in my book and the final price of £18b is reasonable.

We spent around £30b on HS2 with the square root of fuck all to show for it. That is where I would direct my criticism, not at a project we actually completed and will provide economic benefits to the region for decades to come.
 
BobKowalski said:
I expect a major infrastructure project, especially one in the heart of London, to overrun and be over budget. That it’s three years and 28% is pretty good in my book and the final price of £18b is reasonable.

We spent around £30b on HS2 with the square root of fuck all to show for it. That is where I would direct my criticism, not at a project we actually completed and will provide economic benefits to the region for decades to come.
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Did you have some involvement in Crossrail by chance Bob?
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Now their parents don't have jobs so the children are more likely in poverty ?

Are you really trying to justify closing down an major employer using this metric. It's looking desperate Vic.

Sometimes its best to put your hands up and say yes that was a mistake. We both know you would definitely be saying that if the Conservatives were still in power.
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You wouldn't expect Conservatives to go against market forces, would you?

How many loss-making blast furnaces would you want the government to subsidise?

It's not even a "cast iron" security case for having the ability to produce our own raw steel, not when an enemy could sink all the ships bringing us iron ore and coal.
 
Vic said:
You wouldn't expect Conservatives to go against market forces, would you?

How many loss-making blast furnaces would you want the government to subsidise?

It's not even a "cast iron" security case for having the ability to produce our own raw steel, not when an enemy could sink all the ships bringing us iron ore and coal.
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I'm not going to take this debate any further Vic as clearly I don't need to. Have a good day.
 
BobKowalski said:
Because it is pretty good for a major project and the economic growth it will bring to London over the years will make it worthwhile. Crossrail is worth it at £18b especially when weighed against the benefits.
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Who came up with that figure? Hope it wasn't the same guy who gave the original.

The world we live in, quote figures say its good it's only billions over then quote another figure expecting people to accept said figure even though future guestimates are also generally wrong.

Quicker just to say listen I will believe what figures suit my argument.
 
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