The Labour Government

Chippy_boy said:
From Perplexity AI:

Since Labour formed a government on 5 July 2024, the UK’s monthly GDP growth figures have shown a mix of stagnation and contraction, according to the latest available data:

July 2024: 0.0% (flat growth; Labour took office on 5 July)

August 2024: Data not explicitly stated in the search results, but context suggests continued sluggish or flat growth.

September 2024: Data not provided in the search results.

October 2024: Data not provided in the search results.

November 2024: Data not provided in the search results.

December 2024: +0.4%

January 2025: -0.1%

February 2025: Modest uptick (exact figure not specified, but described as an "uptick")

March 2025: +0.2%

April 2025: -0.3%

May 2025: -0.1%

Key points:

The economy rebounded in the first half of 2024 before Labour took office, but growth has been sluggish since.

The months immediately after Labour’s election saw flat or minimal growth, with contractions in early 2025.

The most recent data show contractions in April and May 2025 (-0.3% and -0.1% respectively), following a brief period of growth in March.

If you need monthly figures prior to December 2024 or more granular data for each month, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) provides detailed monthly GDP estimates. The available evidence indicates that since Labour took office, UK growth has been flat to negative in most months, with a brief positive spell in March 2025.
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The ONS website is an utter mess, its really hard to navigate round. This is despite about 5000 people working for it!
 
blueinsa said:
So did I but it comforts them to put you into a box.
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We currently have 3 groups on here according to some

Reform voters
Left wing nutters
Centrists

Centrists who get giddy if gdp goes up 0.1% or down 0.1%,. Love a govt who makes hard decisions, love a govt who listens and reverses the same hard decisions. Pays doctors loads then refuses to pay doctors loads, want to stop the boats then allow more boats, A man with a Penis can be a woman, a man with a Penis can't be a woman. The disabled should work err then maybe not.
3 word slogans are for the dense, 3 word slogans concisely promote your goals.

Top stuff we should all be very positive about the future of the UK

Further and faster

Best start again

Further and faster

Best start again

Fur.....
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The ONS website is an utter mess, its really hard to navigate round. This is despite about 5000 people working for it!
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Indeed!

I since found the missing figures. So the compete picture is:

August 0.2%
September -0.1%
October -0.1%
November +0.1%
December 2024: +0.4%
January 2025: -0.1%
February 2025: +0.5%
March 2025: +0.2%
April 2025: -0.3%
May 2025: -0.1%

Without creating a spreadsheet, I don't know what this looks like in terms of annual growth rate, but clearly it's a way short of the 2.5% target.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Many here would wish what you suggest. Polls say otherwise.

BTW I am not fan of Farage. I've never been, and even less so since he's started to get a whiff of the possibility of power and started rowing back on his principles.

But he's the most realistic option to get rid of Starmer at the moment.
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Hopefully Labour backbenchers will come to our rescue, not yours obviously.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Indeed!

I since found the missing figures. So the compete picture is:

August 0.2%
September -0.1%
October -0.1%
November +0.1%
December 2024: +0.4%
January 2025: -0.1%
February 2025: +0.5%
March 2025: +0.2%
April 2025: -0.3%
May 2025: -0.1%

Without creating a spreadsheet, I don't know what this looks like in terms of annual growth rate, but clearly it's a way short of the 2.5% target.
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So gross GDP is 0.7% so far. Which is better than my 0.4% which I deduced in my head.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Many here would wish what you suggest. Polls say otherwise.

BTW I am not fan of Farage. I've never been, and even less so since he's started to get a whiff of the possibility of power and started rowing back on his principles.

But he's the most realistic option to get rid of Starmer at the moment.
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I honestly think Farage would be far worse than Starmer. He's a grifter first and foremost and will latch on to any populist idea - immigration in particular - for his own ends. He slagged off the EU for decades but was more than happy to pick up his MEP salary. I could see him isolating us from the rest of the world with his divisive politics. Even the policies that should appeal to people of all political persuasions are ideas that belong in a fantasy world. How the hell are they going to fund the increase in the tax-free personal allowance to £20,000 that they're proposing? The simple fact is they can't so they won't do it if they get in. I know you're quite right-wing when it comes to the economy and stuff but there's not a chance Farage comes close to delivering what you're advocating on that score IMO. You yearn for the days of a Thatcher-type figure and as divisive as she could be at times, she shits all over Farage. In fact, I reckon if she's looking down now she'd be horrified at the prospect of Farage becoming PM.

Starmer's far from perfect but I see him as being the best of a not very impressive bunch. I don't think Ed Davey's too bad either but he goes under the radar a lot for some reason, even though he's the leader of a party that has 68 more seats than Reform.
 
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BlueHammer85 said:
Find someone that's posted that, or you make it up for no reason ?
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Posted? Starmer said it. His main problem from a neutral in this left/right battle is he doesn't sit down with his team discuss in detail positives and negatives of an action, make a decision and stick with it. He's all over the place. All the negatives causing the u turns could be seen a mile off. I worry that he has fuck all political instincts or the cabinet are panicking and making poor decisions.

In some ways I believe both positions left and right have a point but Starmer cannot commit to either. I actually believe him and his team are trying to go with cuts and pray for growth from somewhere approach. It's a bit desperate but maybe that's because we are.

He's obviously not popular at the moment, reform are concerning him and others on here in particular. If he's gonna keep u turning we are gonna fail.

He should man the fuck up and go all in on tax reform. Get the poor to middle classes spending again, tell the wealthy to suck it up a bit and borrow to invest.

The only alternative is to go down the @Chippy_boy route which I don't agree with but this fiddling indecisive shit ain't working imho.
 
M18CTID said:
I honestly think Farage would be far worse than Starmer. He's a grifter first and foremost and will latch on to any populist idea - immigration first and foremost - for his own ends. He slagged off the EU for decades but was more than happy to pick up his MEP salary. I could see him isolating us from the rest of the world with his divisive politics. Even the policies that should appeal to people of all political persuasions are ideas that belong in a fantasy world. How the hell are they going to fund the increase in the tax-free personal allowance to £20,000 that they're proposing? The simple fact is they can't so they won't do it if they get in. I know you're quite right-wing when it comes to the economy and stuff but there's not a chance Farage comes close to delivering what you're advocating on that score IMO. You yearn for the days of a Thatcher-type figure and as divisive as she could be at times, she shits all over Farage. In fact, I reckon if she's looking down now she'd be horrified at the prospect of Farage becoming PM.

Starmer's far from perfect but I see him as being the best of a not very impressive bunch. I don't think Ed Davey's too bad either but he goes under the radar a lot for some reason, even though he's the leader of a party that has 68 more seats than Reform.
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Agree with a lot of this but the Libs shouldn't have 68 seats more than reform.
 
We shouldn't have spent billions on stuff we couldn't afford - Brexit, for example.

Where can cuts be made?

Defence? No, not in current circumstances.
Welfare? Benefits (including state pensions) are among the lowest in Europe.
Education? For God's sake, no! We are already inadequately educated as it is.
Health? Most, if not all, comparable countries spend more (percentage-wise) of their GDP than we do, whether funded by tax or insurance. The USA spends twice the percentage of GDP we do.
The Royals? All for it, but petty cash in the scheme of things, even if scrapped altogether.
Foreign Aid? Maybe, but costs in terms of lost influence and private sector contracts.
Local Government? Totally on its arse as it is.
Transport? Very bad for the economy to cut spending, it really needs increasing massively.
Waste? There's always waste in any system, but it's harder to reduce than people make out. If I had a surefire way of cutting waste in organisations that was easy, quick, cheap and effective, I'd be a billionaire! The public sector has been 'cutting waste' since before many of us were born!

So where is the money to come from? Face it, the only realistic option is tax increases. You can argue about the details of how. No one can afford it, but tough shit. We can't afford the state collapsing, that's for sure.
 
hilts said:
Agree with a lot of this but the Libs shouldn't have 68 seats more than reform.
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Guessing you're referring to Proportional Representation? If you are, then to be fair the Lib Dems - and your very own Green Party - have been the losers on that far more times than Reform. The Lib Dems could write a book on the number of times they've been shafted by FPTP and most of it would be before Reform even existed! The number of Reform voters who are suddenly saying FPTP is wrong when they previously had no issue with it because they used to vote Labour or Tory is quite something ;)
 
west didsblue said:
Which is why you mentioned it obviously.
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Fucking tiresome this. No, I didn't. The (lack of) growth is clearly disappointing and relevant and worth posting.

I merely said that month-to-month growth figures were not relevant to the discussion of whether the UK economy is close to bankruptcy. And I was replying to someone else's post, who brought up the subject of growth in the first place. BTW.

It really is hard work when your sole objective is just to argue.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Fucking tiresome this. No, I didn't. The (lack of) growth is clearly disappointing and relevant and worth posting.

I merely said that month-to-month growth figures were not relevant to the discussion of whether the UK economy is close to bankruptcy. And I was replying to someone else's post, who brought up the subject of growth in the first place. BTW.

It really is hard work when your sole objective is just to argue.
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Tell me why the UK economy is close to bankruptcy.
 
hilts said:
Posted? Starmer said it. His main problem from a neutral in this left/right battle is he doesn't sit down with his team discuss in detail positives and negatives of an action, make a decision and stick with it. He's all over the place. All the negatives causing the u turns could be seen a mile off. I worry that he has fuck all political instincts or the cabinet are panicking and making poor decisions.

In some ways I believe both positions left and right have a point but Starmer cannot commit to either. I actually believe him and his team are trying to go with cuts and pray for growth from somewhere approach. It's a bit desperate but maybe that's because we are.

He's obviously not popular at the moment, reform are concerning him and others on here in particular. If he's gonna keep u turning we are gonna fail.

He should man the fuck up and go all in on tax reform. Get the poor to middle classes spending again, tell the wealthy to suck it up a bit and borrow to invest.

The only alternative is to go down the @Chippy_boy route which I don't agree with but this fiddling indecisive shit ain't working imho.
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You'd be surprised perhaps to find that I agree with you. Providing the taxing the rich bit is not over done, or it genuinely will be not only ineffective but downright damaging. Could the top rate be raised to say, 47%? Perhaps. Beyond that, it's not going to bring any additional revenue in and will just drive people (further) into tax avoidance.

And also, BTW, I cannot condone wealth taxes at all. I think they are completely morally unacceptable, for reasons I've already posted. No matter how popular. They could also be a slippery slope. Starting at £10m cut off today perhaps but I note the few countries that have tried them and NOT given up, now have the cut offs WAY lower than that, adversely impacting millions of people, unfairly.
 
west didsblue said:
Tell me why the UK economy is close to bankruptcy.
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I have already. Our 10 year guilt yields are perilously high due to the market's view of our perilously high borrowing and the genuine prospect that the UK may default on its debts. You do understand that's what guilt bond yields are? A measure of how likely the markets think the UK may go bust.

Reeves et al cannot just keep burdening the UK with more and more debt, nor tax rises. The last tax and borrowing rises were the greatest in about 50 years, and now everyone is expecting more in the Autumn. We are on a downward spiral - higher taxes, more borrowing, higher debt interest rates and higher debt interest, more taxes, more borrowing. And if it continues, with no improvement, we WILL go bust.

The markets briefly panicked when Reeves was blubbing, not because she's doing a great job - she isn't - but they reckon she at least understands the severity of the situtation, unlike some of her idiot mates who advocate just taxing and spending more and more. And they (the markets) were scared shitless about who might come next.
 
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