The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

It sounds like he worked a lot of hours - enough to avoid its being obvious what he was doing.

And there's the big question. Did he work 16 hours a day, and therefore his only contributing 4 hours a day to each job was enough to go unnoticed? Or 8 hours total and 2 hours per job. Etc.

You'd hope that anything less than 8 hours contribution would be noticed!

It raises a question about how much the now pervasive working from home, first started during COVID, has contributed to a significant drop in productivity.

It's difficult to imagine how anyone required to regularly attend the office could get away with this for more than a month.

 

[hampshireblue]

Are these the taxes the new Government forgot to mention would happen when their own labour MPs voted against the wellform reforms that the new Government also forgot to mention in their manifesto. But at least they havent broken any manifesto promises. ;-)

It's the taxes or service cuts that may be required to keep the country functioning properly. None of us are comfortable with the present situation but there's no doubt that additional defence spending, a spiralling welfare bill, Trump tariffs, Brexit and Labour's stupid constraints on themselves etc are having an impact on the overall economy.

There are plenty of Labour snipers on here, but rarely do they suggest what they are prepared to do to make the country a better place to live.

 

[mancityvstoke]

I did not suggest that ALL public sector workers were idle and it is ludicrous for you to say that I did. I talked about productivity as a whole.

And I'm certainly not buying this woke bullshit that we cannot question things lest we offend some delicate soul.

And it shouldn't take a fraud team to spot this. What about a manager? Or just someone who gave a shit that only 1/4 of the amount of expected work was being done? Is it unreasonable to have expected that someone might notice in over a year?

The fact they did not, raises genuine questions about productivity.

everyone knows some fucker at work who gets away with doing fuck all.

Managers seem to have really shit eyesight.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It's the taxes or service cuts that may be required to keep the country functioning properly. None of us are comfortable with the present situation but there's no doubt that additional defence spending, a spiralling welfare bill, Trump tariffs, Brexit and Labour's stupid constraints on themselves etc are having an impact on the overall economy.

There are plenty of Labour snipers on here, but rarely do they suggest what they are prepared to do to make the country a better place to live.

I agree, I was just pointing out, tongue in cheek to Vic, that these were not in the manifesto ?

 

[xmusampa]

everyone knows some fucker at work who gets away with doing fuck all.

Managers seem to have really shit eyesight.

Or employees play race cards sick cards mg cards family cards I’m being bullied cards etc and somebody steps in and lets them off the hook

 

[hampshireblue]

I agree, I was just pointing out, tongue in cheek to Vic, that these were not in the manifesto ?

A manifesto, though, is more a wish list . Unfortunately nowadays, the voters and press see it as a firm, untouchable commitment and unfortunately this is an unrealistic position for a country, just as it would be for a business. They know where they want to be but there will always be hurdles that deflect a steady course, and this applies to all parties. Out of interest what are your personal ideas should taxes need to rise or services cut?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

A manifesto, though, is more a wish list . Unfortunately nowadays, the voters and press see it as a firm, untouchable commitment and unfortunately this is an unrealstic position fro a country, just as it would be for a business. They know where they want to be but there will always be hurdles that deflect a steady course, and this applies to all parties. Out of interest what are your personal ideas should taxes need to rise or services cut?

First off I would go for the big corporations that avoid paying corporation tax in the UK. And use Luxemboug , ROI, channel Isles etc. These just legally avoid tax so that the rest of us end up paying more. If they leave they will be replaced by UK companies but they won't they make too much money. I would use some of these taxes to reduce the corporation tax on the smallest businesses.

I would put tarriffs on imported steel to ensure we retain our home grown steel industry and make sure we put incentives in UK procurement so we buy our own steel.

Then I would also cap the welfare bill with inflation only budget rises, for things like PIP and child payments. These are clearly spiralling put of control. We need to learn to live by our means as a nation and not just assume that their is an endless money tree that many MPs seem to think exists. I know three teachers in different areas who have all said they are being put under pressure by parents to diagnose their children with things like ADHD so they can get more benefits.

I would put a small tax rise say 2% on income tax for the highest earners above £125k.

I would abolish the Barnett formula (gradually) so wealth is distrubuted fairly across the UK nations.

I would revise the energy price cap and the mechanism that means all UK electricity is set by the highest cost generator which is gas. This is clearly ridiculous.

I would start putting assylum claimants in tents in camps until processed, and stop them absconding to work illegally. That would deter many people from coming. Anyone caught employing people illegally would be heavily fined personally and jailed for a couple of weeks.

I would change the rules to make sure that if you arrived here from another country, you had to have paid into the system in NI before you take out benefits and health care. Unless you are working in a UK designated desired sector like the NHS etc.

In conclusion , I have a few gripes with the new government, but am prepared to give them some time, it's too early imo to judge them. They have to grow the economy to achieve a better standard of living for everyone.

 

[Chippy_boy]

everyone knows some fucker at work who gets away with doing fuck all.

Managers seem to have really shit eyesight.

Agreed. It's certainly not only the public sector either.

Although something you can measure, absenteeism, is certainly higher in the public sector compared to private. Running at about 2x the rate overall.

Some of that may be down to more stress in front line care jobs*. But even in e.g. the Civil Service, absenteeism is higher.




*Debatable. Private sector jobs are often very stressful indeed. Try constantly having the threat of the sack hanging over you if were underperform, as is common in IT sales jobs for example. I've worked in places where they fire the bottom 10% of performers every quarter, and when your mortgage is at risk, that is no fun, believe me!

 

[Chippy_boy]

They have to grow the economy to achieve a better standard of living for everyone.

Agreed re that one. It was all they talked about in the early days but has now dropped from the narrative. I'd like to hear from them a clear plan for growth with specific initiatives they think will drive it.

That's been sadly lacking so far.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I agree, I was just pointing out, tongue in cheek to Vic, that these were not in the manifesto ?

The "fully costed manifesto" that failed to mention the WFA and benefits cuts was a lie and the government should be held to account for it.

As for people asking stupid and meaningless questions about raising taxes and cutting spending... it's pointless. It's the elected party that are in Government and made promises and commitments that needs to answer those questions not Joe Public.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The "fully costed manifesto" that failed to mention the WFA and benefits cuts was a lie and the government should be held to account for it.

As for people asking stupid and meaningless questions about raising taxes and cutting spending... it's pointless. It's the elected party that are in Government and made promises and commitments that needs to answer those questions not Joe Public.

I dissagree, sure the Government of the day should be held to account, but what's wrong with asking someone what their alternatives would be?

 

[BigJoe#1]

I dissagree, sure the Government of the day should be held to account, but what's wrong with asking someone what their alternatives would be?

Because it counts for..... nothing, meaningless.

Its not like we are drafting proposals for ministers to consider. The focus should be on what the government said they would do as opposed to what they are actually doing.

If I had my way I would nationalise the energy businesses and the water companies. I would introduce a wealth tax, the richest people could forego say 10% of their assets above... what £20m? I would increase corporation tax. Raise the upper limit of income tax on earnings over £100k to 60%,...... and so it goes on. Trouble is, like many others on here I have zero influence on government policy.

Th e main difference is I never made any commitments in a fully costed manifesto, ergo I don't have to come up with answers, but if the government don't deliver to what they committed and decide to extend the scope of their manifesto... yeah damn right I'll complain, just as I did when Cameron took over from Labour. I think it was two, to two and a half years he was banging on about the mess he inherited from the previous government.

They are all as incompetent as each other.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Because it counts for..... nothing, meaningless.

Its not like we are drafting proposals for ministers to consider. The focus should be on what the government said they would do as opposed to what they are actually doing.

If I had my way I would nationalise the energy businesses and the water companies. I would introduce a wealth tax, the richest people could forego say 10% of their assets above... what £20m? I would increase corporation tax. Raise the upper limit of income tax on earnings over £100k to 60%,...... and so it goes on. Trouble is, like many others on here I have zero influence on government policy.

Th e main difference is I never made any commitments in a fully costed manifesto, ergo I don't have to come up with answers, but if the government don't deliver to what they committed and decide to extend the scope of their manifesto... yeah damn right I'll complain, just as I did when Cameron took over from Labour. I think it was two, to two and a half years he was banging on about the mess he inherited from the previous government.

They are all as incompetent as each other.

Of course it's meaningless, this is forum to just debate diacuss opinions, City, football and other stuff. None of it has any meaning if you are going to take that attitude.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Because it counts for..... nothing, meaningless.

Its not like we are drafting proposals for ministers to consider. The focus should be on what the government said they would do as opposed to what they are actually doing.

If I had my way I would nationalise the energy businesses and the water companies. I would introduce a wealth tax, the richest people could forego say 10% of their assets above... what £20m? I would increase corporation tax. Raise the upper limit of income tax on earnings over £100k to 60%,...... and so it goes on. Trouble is, like many others on here I have zero influence on government policy.

Th e main difference is I never made any commitments in a fully costed manifesto, ergo I don't have to come up with answers, but if the government don't deliver to what they committed and decide to extend the scope of their manifesto... yeah damn right I'll complain, just as I did when Cameron took over from Labour. I think it was two, to two and a half years he was banging on about the mess he inherited from the previous government.

They are all as incompetent as each other.

Yes I would nationalise the water and probably the energy companies, if they gradually defaulted. I disagree with the Governemnt that it would cost money to take Thames back into the public sector. Why would that be.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Agreed. It's certainly not only the public sector either.

Although something you can measure, absenteeism, is certainly higher in the public sector compared to private. Running at about 2x the rate overall.

Some of that may be down to more stress in front line care jobs*. But even in e.g. the Civil Service, absenteeism is higher.




*Debatable. Private sector jobs are often very stressful indeed. Try constantly having the threat of the sack hanging over you if were underperform, as is common in IT sales jobs for example. I've worked in places where they fire the bottom 10% of performers every quarter, and when your mortgage is at risk, that is no fun, believe me!

I worked for Sharp UK for many years in Newton Heath (yeah I know) but the Japanese take no shit and watch every move you make with incentives of extra bonus increase each year for good time keeping and no absenteeism. You started at 10% pay rise and lost percentages for screwing up. Then they got rid if you under performed or didnt hit targets, They really wanted snipers too but we resisted that. (they refused any union membership)

 

[Chippy_boy]

A manifesto, though, is more a wish list.

I think that's far too generous and I disagree. Sure, it cannot be a binding commitment because things change and governments have to respond and react. But it's supposed to be their plan, not some bit of fluff that can be ignored willy nilly. And if elements of it are to be dropped, or changed, (or added) then I think the public is owed some kind of explanation at least. What's changed and why X or Y cannot be delivered, or commitment not honoured.

This isn't a criticism of Labour, btw. It applies to all governments.

If none of the above applies then parties can put what the fuck they like in there and it becomes meaningless, and any shred of trust by the public is completely lost.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes I would nationalise the water and probably the energy companies, if they gradually defaulted. I disagree with the Governemnt that it would cost money to take Thames back into the public sector. Why would that be.

I'm assuming because they are owned by their shareholders? Suppose you have £10,000 in savings and you've bought £10,000 worth of shares in Kemble (Thames' parent company). I don't suppose you'd be too chuffed if the government just took them off you and gave you no money back.

That's why governments can't afford to nationalise most businesses, the exception being if they are on some term franchise which the government can simple chose not to renewal at expiry.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I'm assuming because they are owned by their shareholders? Suppose you have £10,000 in savings and you've bought £10,000 worth of shares in Kemble (Thames' parent company). I don't suppose you'd be too chuffed if the government just took them off you and gave you no money back.

That's why governments can't afford to nationalise most businesses, the exception being if they are on some term franchise which the government can simple chose not to renewal at expiry.

Fair play to your points.... provided shareholders will be held responsible for the debts that the Business incur and pay them up in full?

They seem for quite a while now, to be drawing dividends from a loss making company... not even United are that bad... are they?

 

[hilts]

A manifesto, though, is more a wish list . Unfortunately nowadays, the voters and press see it as a firm, untouchable commitment and unfortunately this is an unrealistic position for a country, just as it would be for a business. They know where they want to be but there will always be hurdles that deflect a steady course, and this applies to all parties. Out of interest what are your personal ideas should taxes need to rise or services cut?

It's more than a wish list, that's bollocks I'm afraid.

 

[BigJoe#1]

It's more than a wish list, that's bollocks I'm afraid.

Completely 100% correct.