The Labour Government

[BobKowalski]

So after two world wars we had higher debt? That's not particularly reassuring. Most people would accept that debt to finance fighting an existential threat to the nation is regrettable, but understandable.

This idea that government spending during peacetime, can and should be financed by debt is why we're in the situation we're in today. Big mistake giving politicians a blank cheque.

I don't agree that our debt levels are no big deal, in fact they are unsustainable, we are reaching the point where we are running out of buyers for our debt, which sends the rate higher, costing the government even more to service.

This is what's known as a debt doom loop, as the government borrows more, the bond markets require higher rates, which costs the government more, which means the government borrows more, etc, etc.

We've already reached the stage where servicing debt is a significant portion of government spending and this gets worse until we address this issue by cutting spending. If we don't do this voluntarily we're looking at a debt crisis eventually and then we're in for a world of pain.

Yes. We’ve also had the financial crash in 2008, a major disruption to our industrial and foreign policy with Brexit followed by political instability in its wake, a global pandemic and a major war in Europe. Events have a major impact on our finances. Right now there is an unnecessary trade war, shifting of global supply lines and a US administration imposing a cost of living crisis on their own people via a sales tax and impacting our exports.

What the UK and the world needs is a period of calm stability. Instead we have people trying to burn everything down with zero clue on how to replace it. Make politics boring again, give business stability and certainty on what the trading environment will look like a year or two years from now and you will be pleasantly surprised.

If we keep encouraging or voting for chaos all you will get is more chaos.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

So for accuracy there were 49000 irregular arrivals in the period you refer to. 49000 is not a majority of 111000. It is the processing of them that determines whether they are not genuine refugees.

You're right though that they do need to get a grip. What do you suggest within the boundaries of international law?

Fair enough. It’s still too high either way.

Unfortunately I don’t have the answers. Perhaps we do need to review and look at changing some of the European convention on human rights laws or at least the laws in place that stop us deporting people.

 

[BobKowalski]

Fair enough. It’s still too high either way.

Unfortunately I don’t have the answers. Perhaps we do need to review and look at changing some of the European convention on human rights laws or at least the laws in place that stop us deporting people.

Human rights either apply to everyone or no one. I never understood this desire of people to deprive themselves of their rights.

Oh, and we already deport people.

 

[hilts]

Yes. We’ve also had the financial crash in 2008, a major disruption to our industrial and foreign policy with Brexit followed by political instability in its wake, a global pandemic and a major war in Europe. Events have a major impact on our finances. Right now there is an unnecessary trade war, shifting of global supply lines and a US administration imposing a cost of living crisis on their own people via a sales tax and impacting our exports.

What the UK and the world needs is a period of calm stability. Instead we have people trying to burn everything down with zero clue on how to replace it. Make politics boring again, give business stability and certainty on what the trading environment will look like a year or two years from now and you will be pleasantly surprised.

If we keep encouraging or voting for chaos all you will get is more chaos.

Yeah coz voting for Tories and Labour did so well until.we voted in....... oh right erm

Truly inspirational post btw

Business stability

We can only hope for such a wonderland

Pmsl.

 

[Hgblue2]

Yes. We’ve also had the financial crash in 2008, a major disruption to our industrial and foreign policy with Brexit followed by political instability in its wake, a global pandemic and a major war in Europe. Events have a major impact on our finances. Right now there is an unnecessary trade war, shifting of global supply lines and a US administration imposing a cost of living crisis on their own people via a sales tax and impacting our exports.

What the UK and the world needs is a period of calm stability. Instead we have people trying to burn everything down with zero clue on how to replace it. Make politics boring again, give business stability and certainty on what the trading environment will look like a year or two years from now and you will be pleasantly surprised.

If we keep encouraging or voting for chaos all you will get is more chaos.

It's a tough sell that BK but kudos for trying ;)

 

[BobKowalski]

Yeah coz voting for Tories and Labour did so well until.we voted in....... oh right erm

Truly inspirational post btw

Business stability

We can only hope for such a wonderland

Pmsl.

We can indeed hope. Political stability is how a country thrives. Stability brings certainty and with certainty you can plan ahead. Chaos just feeds chaos. And since 2015 and the Cameron Govt it has been five prime ministers and nothing but instability and chaos. Some external and some we brought upon ourselves.

Been a fucking hoot hasn’t it?

 

[BobKowalski]

It's a tough sell that BK but kudos for trying ;)

You’re welcome :)

 

[hampshireblue]

So after two world wars we had higher debt? That's not particularly reassuring. Most people would accept that debt to finance fighting an existential threat to the nation is regrettable, but understandable.

This idea that government spending during peacetime, can and should be financed by debt is why we're in the situation we're in today. Big mistake giving politicians a blank cheque.

I don't agree that our debt levels are no big deal, in fact they are unsustainable, we are reaching the point where we are running out of buyers for our debt, which sends the rate higher, costing the government even more to service.

This is what's known as a debt doom loop, as the government borrows more, the bond markets require higher rates, which costs the government more, which means the government borrows more, etc, etc.

We've already reached the stage where servicing debt is a significant portion of government spending and this gets worse until we address this issue by cutting spending. If we don't do this voluntarily we're looking at a debt crisis eventually and then we're in for a world of pain.

Come on then, ideas what you're getting rid of? It's all very well making these statements but without tangible ideas it counts for nothing.

 

[Hgblue2]

Come on then, ideas what you're getting rid of? It's all very well making these statements but without tangible ideas it counts for nothing.

Suffice to say we need to get serious about reducing spending in high spending government departments, not because we want to, but because we must. Don't blame me, blame the feckless politicians who've put us in this position.

The NHS funding model is out of date, the 5% spending target on defence is unaffordable, net zero needs to go, foreign aid needs to be reviewed, welfare spending is out of control, the government is too big and bloated, illegal immigration needs to be stopped. Just off the top of my head.

Going to be painful, but the longer we leave it the more painful it gets, a debt crisis will be much more painful

 

[ganganvince]

Africa has the highest birth rate at around 4. Europe, Asia, North and South America below 2 and Oceania at just above 2. The replacement rate is 2.1.

Births per woman have dropped from 5 to 2.25 since 1950 and Africa is slowly trending downwards in common with the rest of the world. The projection is world population to decline by the turn of the century.

The UK birth rate from 2023 data is 1.44 which is below the replacement rate. The maths seems pretty clear. If there is data to prove otherwise then I would be interested to read itAnnual population growth https://share.google/Jtf1mQOyNzUvNXVuy

Shows worldwide population currently growing by 70 million a year with projections to slow by end of century.

Annual population growth https://share.google/Jtf1mQOyNzUvNXVuy

 

[blueinsa]

Forget talk of cutting back.

This Labour government will do what they all do and that is tax and spend.

Next lot will come in, blame this lot for the mess, blah blah blah, rinse and repeat.

 

[Hgblue2]

Forget talk of cutting back.

This Labour government will do what they all do and that is tax and spend.

Next lot will come in, blame this lot for the mess, blah blah blah, rinse and repeat.

Not this time, the bond markets won't allow it.

 

[BobKowalski]

Shows worldwide population currently growing by 70 million a year with projections to slow by end of century.

Annual population growth https://share.google/Jtf1mQOyNzUvNXVuy
View attachment 166951

Yes. Slightly confused given I agree that the projection is a decline in world population at the turn of the century based on fertility rates. Am I missing something?

 

[Vic]

Well, here's signs of stability.

Pmi index good

UK firms report strongest activity in a year in August PMI survey

British businesses are having their strongest month in a year thanks to a rebound in the dominant services sector, according to a survey that suggests Britain's economy is continuing to outperform those of other European countries.

www.reuters.com

Business investment down but previous quarter was a high. But higher, just, than the last quarter before the election.

UK business investment 2025| Statista

In the first quarter of 2025, the business investment index in the United Kingdom was 113, compared with 108 in the previous quarter, indicating that business investment has increased.

www.statista.com

However, ask the bosses (e.g. the Institute of Directors) and they will say the outlook is poor. Now that couldn't be anything to do with not wanting to pay more tax, could it?

 

[Vic]

Suffice to say we need to get serious about reducing spending in high spending government departments, not because we want to, but because we must. Don't blame me, blame the feckless politicians who've put us in this position.

The NHS funding model is out of date, the 5% spending target on defence is unaffordable, net zero needs to go, foreign aid needs to be reviewed, welfare spending is out of control, the government is too big and bloated, illegal immigration needs to be stopped. Just off the top of my head.

Going to be painful, but the longer we leave it the more painful it gets, a debt crisis will be much more painful

Cut foreign aid, you get more migration.

Has anyone yet has made a link between the cuts in aid and increased migration? It was certainly predicted.

 

[hilts]

We can indeed hope. Political stability is how a country thrives. Stability brings certainty and with certainty you can plan ahead. Chaos just feeds chaos. And since 2015 and the Cameron Govt it has been five prime ministers and nothing but instability and chaos. Some external and some we brought upon ourselves.

Been a fucking hoot hasn’t it?

Really we don't know what tte economy or inflation will be doing in 3 weeks never mind 3 years :-), stability and certainty fucking hell.

Hey but whaddya gonna do

Again:-)

 

[Hertzblue]

Yes. We’ve also had the financial crash in 2008, a major disruption to our industrial and foreign policy with Brexit followed by political instability in its wake, a global pandemic and a major war in Europe. Events have a major impact on our finances. Right now there is an unnecessary trade war, shifting of global supply lines and a US administration imposing a cost of living crisis on their own people via a sales tax and impacting our exports.

What the UK and the world needs is a period of calm stability. Instead we have people trying to burn everything down with zero clue on how to replace it. Make politics boring again, give business stability and certainty on what the trading environment will look like a year or two years from now and you will be pleasantly surprised.

If we keep encouraging or voting for chaos all you will get is more chaos.

 

[Vic]

View attachment 166963

That must be one of the most nonsensical memes ever.

Even if a boat was sinking, how would rocking it help?

 

[Hertzblue]

That must be one of the most nonsensical memes ever.

Even if a boat was sinking, how would rocking it help?

God help me.

 

[bluethrunthru]

foreign aid needs to be reviewed,

it was reviewed by the last Govt and cut from 0.5% GNI to 0.3% GNI by 2027 - thanks to the idiotic practises of that Govt over migration that led to nearly 30% of that total being spent INSIDE the UK on migrants and the services needed.