The Labour Government

bluethrunthru said:
personally they fucked up from the start with the WFA. Since then inexplicably they have chased the votes of people who will never vote for them and frankly they shouldn't need. They have 4 years to turn things around but I am doubtful that brand Starmer could win them the next election now. All the time, all the effort and all the money wasted when they could have devoted it all to going further and faster as they always say.
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It's going to be a long 4 years. The arse end of the Tory government was pretty bad but this lot are managing to be worse. I'm centrist, possibly left of centre, and I can see absolutely nothing positive coming from this administration now. They've absolutely fucked it, so much so that we're actually talking about the very real prospect of Nigel fucking Farage becoming Prime Minister. How the hell have we ended up here?
 
Dazzle84 said:
It's going to be a long 4 years. The arse end of the Tory government was pretty bad but this lot are managing to be worse. I'm centrist, possibly left of centre, and I can see absolutely nothing positive coming from this administration now. They've absolutely fucked it, so much so that we're actually talking about the very real prospect of Nigel fucking Farage becoming Prime Minister. How the hell have we ended up here?
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I think this situation was inevitable in all likelihood. So many people wanted Labour in just to get rid of the horrendous Tories. There's just no positivity around so the blame, a lot of which is warranted, gets laid at the door of the government. Rayner's antics really hasn't done them any favours as they currently stand.
 
Roachy said:
I think this situation was inevitable in all likelihood. So many people wanted Labour in just to get rid of the horrendous Tories. There's just no positivity around so the blame, a lot of which is warranted, gets laid at the door of the government. Rayner's antics really hasn't done them any favours as they currently stand.
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Yeah, being elected on the basis of 'not being the Tories' and that then following through to the policy of government is ridiculous, frankly. The next election will be be Farage or A.N. Other whose main feature is not being him.

That's dependent on when the war hits I suppose, all bets are off politically in that case
 
Dazzle84 said:
Yeah, being elected on the basis of 'not being the Tories' and that then following through to the policy of government is ridiculous, frankly. The next election will be be Farage or A.N. Other whose main feature is not being him.

That's dependent on when the war hits I suppose, all bets are off politically in that case
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I cannot remember the last politician of substance and don't see it changing tbh. They serve and look after themselves now rather than the needs of the public.
 
chesterbells said:
Agreed. But I just think it’s an interesting angle to talk about sharing good news.
Whether it’s Trump or Biden, whether it’s Labour or Conservative, they will all have achieved some successes, but you don’t (well, I don’t) feel like you hear enough about them.

I hear too much about holding people accountable, about holding their feet to the flame etc with all politicians and political parties. Yes there’s a place for that, but there isn’t enough positive news around about things that do improve. That’s where politics goes wrong for me, when it’s all about what’s gone wrong.

With media outlets, and social media and their opponents, all taking chunks nowadays, it’s a miracle any politician or party ever gets re-elected.
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I do agree that in this day and age its a thankless job as there will always be someone who has a social media platform that doesn't like what you are doing, even if the majority agree. This is picked up by the media and repeated 24/7 on news outlets.

The more pressing problem is that whilst all governments can claim some successes, its if you get success in the major policy area that resonates with the general public which you are measured on. Everything else is a bit like arranging the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic, whilst the electorate really wants someone at the helm turning the wheel.

The little successes are great when the economy is running well, but at the moment the current set of policies are not driving growth or significant foreign investment, but neither are they tackling the welfare problem or being honest about the necessary personal taxation due to pressure from the back benchers.

We are stuck with politicians (blue or red) who function like middle managers rather that leaders. We are at a juncture where we need good leaders to drive through the necessary change rather than wavering in the wind.
 
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Kompany Car said:
I do agree that in this day and age its a thankless job as there will always be someone who has a social media platform that doesn't like what you are doing, even if the majority agree. This is picked up by the media and repeated 24/7 on news outlets.

The more pressing problem is that whilst all governments can claim some successes, its if you get success in the major policy area that resonates with the general public which you are measured on. Everything else is a bit like arranging the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic, whilst the electorate really wants someone at the helm turning the wheel.

The little successes are great when the economy is running well, but at the moment the current set of policies are not driving growth or significant foreign investment, but neither are they tackling the welfare problem or being honest about the necessary personal taxation due to pressure from the back benchers.

We are stuck with politicians (blue or red) who function like middle managers rather that leaders. We are at a juncture where we need good leaders to drive through the necessary change rather than wavering in the wind.
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Again, not disagreeing, but the smaller issues matter to everyday life too - someone is filling in lots of potholes at the moment, I know that much!
 
Vic said:
Just a reminder of how many millions Tory MPs made from replacing rates on their several houses with the poll tax.

And I know you're all a bit mad, but even you surely don't take seriously the Daily Mail. "The Deputy PM bought the smart £800k seaside apartment in Hove to add to her burgeoning property empire." Just remind us how many homes she actually owns in this "empire".

It's ridiculous.
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I am disappointed more than anything with Rayner. She’s taking the piss with a £800,000 flat in Hove. What Tory MPs do is not relevant
 
Kompany Car said:
I do agree that in this day and age its a thankless job as there will always be someone who has a social media platform that doesn't like what you are doing, even if the majority agree. This is picked up by the media and repeated 24/7 on news outlets.

The more pressing problem is that whilst all governments can claim some successes, its if you get success in the major policy area that resonates with the general public which you are measured on. Everything else is a bit like arranging the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic, whilst the electorate really wants someone at the helm turning the wheel.

The little successes are great when the economy is running well, but at the moment the current set of policies are not driving growth or significant foreign investment, but neither are they tackling the welfare problem or being honest about the necessary personal taxation due to pressure from the back benchers.

We are stuck with politicians (blue or red) who function like middle managers rather that leaders. We are at a juncture where we need good leaders to drive through the necessary change rather than wavering in the wind.
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Whoever won the general election in 2024 was on a hiding to nothing. There’s a huge hole in the countries finances and what ever measures to fix it will upset the balancing act of the economy. National insurance contributions going up for businesses has spooked many organisations and put them in survival mode rather than growth, we’ve now got a shrinking job market as a cause and effect. There is no plan for how to grow the economy instead Labour have got themselves into a situation where they are preoccupied with being reactionary to what ever them grifters at reform say.

Brexit has hurt this country in lost economic out put where we drift along with high inflation and zero growth. From what I’ve seen of the major parties there’s only the Lib Dems that will talk about it. Being part of the single market which could help businesses do more trade with Europe is a red line for Starmer as he wants to keep all those people who voted and brought this shit show on the country onside.
 
Roachy said:
I think this situation was inevitable in all likelihood. So many people wanted Labour in just to get rid of the horrendous Tories. There's just no positivity around so the blame, a lot of which is warranted, gets laid at the door of the government. Rayner's antics really hasn't done them any favours as they currently stand.
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People said the same thing about David Cameron is his first term too though. No enthusiasm for him, couldn't even win a majority, and then romped to victory in the second term after being told that UKIP were coming for all his votes.

I wonder if there are still enough people who vote Labour and Conservative no matter what that despite the polling, Reform will never be able to make up the numbers from the people who don't. Labour have never got less than 8 million votes (at least since the 80s) and the Tories 6.8m at the last election was their worst performance ever, but typically they also never drop below 8 million. You've got to wonder how many votes Reform can genuinely steal from these two parties, bearing in mind that they're unlikely to capture many from the Lib Dems, SNP, the Greens or Plaid Cymru. They basically need to double their vote to match the worst performances of the big two parties, and there is a sizeable number of people who always vote for the same party, or like their local MP regardless of their party. In theory, it's possible. Around 30 million people usually vote, so if Labour and the Tories collapse and get around 14 million between them, then a lower number could win a General Election, but that's assuming that such a collapse would all move to Reform rather than the other options.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
People said the same thing about David Cameron is his first term too though. No enthusiasm for him, couldn't even win a majority, and then romped to victory in the second term after being told that UKIP were coming for all his votes.

I wonder if there are still enough people who vote Labour and Conservative no matter what that despite the polling, Reform will never be able to make up the numbers from the people who don't. Labour have never got less than 8 million votes (at least since the 80s) and the Tories 6.8m at the last election was their worst performance ever, but typically they also never drop below 8 million. You've got to wonder how many votes Reform can genuinely steal from these two parties, bearing in mind that they're unlikely to capture many from the Lib Dems, SNP, the Greens or Plaid Cymru. They basically need to double their vote to match the worst performances of the big two parties, and there is a sizeable number of people who always vote for the same party, or like their local MP regardless of their party. In theory, it's possible. Around 30 million people usually vote, so if Labour and the Tories collapse and get around 14 million between them, then a lower number could win a General Election, but that's assuming that such a collapse would all move to Reform rather than the other options.
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The other thing is Reform seem to be, in some quarters, bobbing along on the crest of a wave. Maintaining that would take some doing. I think in the eyes of many Labour just aren't delivering, but that can obviously change between now and the next GE. Immigration and the economy will be the key factors I feel
 
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Gray said:
Don’t mention that twat, he single handedly ruined company pension schemes.
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He did have an effect in making them a bit poorer for sure. But it was an extension of a process started by Norman Lamont. He certainly didn't "ruin" my scheme by his actions. I seem to remember there was legislation at the time that prevented schemes having an excessive surplus, and as most DB schemes at the time were in in surplus, it did have unforeseen consequences.

Estimates suggest that the affect over the course of membership of a DB scheme was 12%, certainly significant but not ruinous over a 30+ year timescale.
 
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