The Labour Government

Chippy_boy said:
You get a tiny bit of criticism from me and immediately resort to telling me fuck off etc etc etc, and then irony of irony, call ME a snowflake. Quite hilarious, love.

No-one was returned under Rwanda because Labour cancelled it. End of. Own it.

EDIT: BTW, 2 can play at the From AI game:

At the point Labour cancelled the Rwanda scheme in early July 2024, the emergency legislation and UK‑Rwanda treaty were both in force, clearing the main domestic legal barriers for removals. The Conservative government had prepared detentions, compiled a "first cohort" for deportations, and was publicly committed to flying people to Rwanda as soon as possible after the general election. In that sense, the machinery for removals was positioned to begin, subject to no new successful last-minute court actions—though it's impossible to know with certainty if further injunctions might have succeeded.

Labour’s cancellation halted the scheme before any forced removals took place. As a result, no one was deported under the Rwanda plan not because of unresolved government obstacles at that time, but because Labour, fulfilling a campaign promise, repealed the policy immediately after taking office. Thus, as a matter of chronology, it is accurate to say that no one was forcibly returned because Labour cancelled the scheme at the moment the machinery was technically ready but before any flights occurred.
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The election was called when it was called precisely because Sunak new this policy wouldn’t work and the boats would come over the summer
 
blueinsa said:
Instead of giving life savings to gangs and risking life and limb on a rubber boat, how about entering the UK via a legal post of entry?

Buy a plane ticket, fly in and apply but no, they don’t want to do that because they want to arrive with no ID or passports for very obvious reasons.
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That's a completely separate point.
I'm talking about a way for us to stop them coming altogether until they have been approved to stay and rejecting anyone that arrives without first getting authorisation to stay.
 
metalblue said:
The financial crisis didn’t cause people to lose their homes, people losing their homes caused the financial crisis - with the recession that proceeded the financial crisis causing people to lose their homes which was caused by a “lend to anyone” attitude by certain mortgage providers. A perfect storm.

Once the dust settled we had access to effectively borrow money for free. The correlation between interest rates and growth is unbreakable even if one lags the other in certain periods.

Reeves has 3 choices;

1. Decrease spending AKA austerity
2. Increase taxes
3. Try and land somewhere in the middle.

The government have already tried 3 (tax increases and trying to cut welfare) so they perhaps try that again - whack business a bit more and cut a bit of spending in areas that the back benchers won’t revolt against. This is the middle management type of safe option, no actual strategy for growth etc just hoping something somewhere changes and digs us out of a bit of a hole. Just the sort of option Starmer and Reeves would go for I fear.

It’s all a bit of a pickle really.
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There is a strategy for growth
 
117 M34 said:
That's a completely separate point.
I'm talking about a way for us to stop them coming altogether until they have been approved to stay and rejecting anyone that arrives without first getting authorisation to stay.
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You have to apply inside the UK
 
blueinsa said:
Instead of giving life savings to gangs and risking life and limb on a rubber boat, how about entering the UK via a legal post of entry?

Buy a plane ticket, fly in and apply but no, they don’t want to do that because they want to arrive with no ID or passports for very obvious reasons.
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You need to think this through a little bit more you clearly don’t understand how air travel works
 
Chippy_boy said:
So what's your alternative? Just spend more money we haven't got?

Today is the first day of the rest of your life, so it's somewhat academic how we got here. It might make you feel better having a good rant about a system and people you don't like, but that changes nothing.

Fact is we are spending £125bn per year on debt interest as it is. Increasing that further would be utter madness. And also the fact is, you cannot just keep increasing taxes and expect it to not have a negative effect upon an economy that is not even growing as it is. And finally, Reeves has ruled out breaking her fiscal rules.

We have 3 options: Spending cuts, tax even more or borrow even more. Given the humungous size of the welfare bill, which is expected to balloon even further, spending cuts (and efficiency improvement wherever possible) has to be the focus no matter how unpalatable. The other two options won't work, no matter how much you wish otherwise.
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Spending cuts might have worked if public services weren’t already shit also a large portion of spending is on the elderly who vote
 
blueinsa said:
What’s stopping anyone with the will to enter legally with the aim of applying for asylum getting one?

Don’t say money when we know how much the gangs are taking from these people.
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That’s not how visas or asylum works
 
Really_here said:
So this story is just made up then is it?
news.sky.com

Afghans relocated to UK 'staged torture videos' and 'holiday in Afghanistan', ex-interpreter says

"The only threat is unemployment," the source, who has direct knowledge of the government's relocation scheme, tells Sky News.
news.sky.com news.sky.com

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Even the headlines in these articles put everything in quotes because they have so little actual evidence. The article is also referring to a specific period from 2021, to early 2022. I don't doubt that people took advantage of the chaos, or tried to, given the pressure at the time, but Afghanistan was a special case for a short while.

I explained what the current law is - something you can look up and confirm.
 
bluenova said:
I won't address everything in that post, but "A few months later they are going back on holiday which you are paying for." this is not true.

If you're an asylum seeker you can't travel. If you get refugee status, you can apply to travel, but not using your own passport. The Home Office have to give you permission, and it would almost always specifically exclude a return to the country you claimed asylum from.

If you've been in the UK as a refugee for more than 5 years (or 10 in some cases), you may be able to apply for indefinite leave to remain, which gives you a more settled status, and allows more normal travel. However, you are still almost certainly not allowed to visit the country you left.

ps. just an aside - people who make the kind of journey that is required to get to the UK from the likes of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc., tend not to be looking for an easy life on benefits. In my experience, they're some of the most resourceful people around, and are usually desperate to work.
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Have you ever been to or lived in any of these places where these people are coming from? I have lived in quite a few of them in Africa and the Middle East I Nigeria you can buy any paper you want from any ministry you want . Buy a degree from University No problem. False birth certificate no problem . These are not copies . Somebody will get you what you want For fucks sake I was in a museum in Benin and the guy offered to sell me any of the exhibits I wanted. Iran ,great people but the regime is corrupt as fuck as well . Iraq Pakistan . etc you can get any documents you like as long as you can pay. I don't see what the density of Rwanda being more than the UK has to do with sending people there and the old chestnut about them all desperate to work. Any ideas about the average number of dependents brought per asylum seeker . That is one of the biggest problems. A lot of them call their whole family dependents and as I have said before the documentation is not difficult to get if you pay.
The end of the argument is that Britain cannot afford to bring a million people a year into the country and support them Christ there are no jobs for our own kids or hospital places ,dental appointments etc
 
WRicko said:
That’s not how visas or asylum works
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Maybe it should and we should make law that states anyone entering illegally will be charged and prosecuted and let’s say given 5 years they will serve before being deported.

A majority have had enough.

Even the Lib Dems have finally woke up and realised.
 
John John said:
Have you ever been to or lived in any of these places where these people are coming from? I have lived in quite a few of them in Africa and the Middle East I Nigeria you can buy any paper you want from any ministry you want . Buy a degree from University No problem. False birth certificate no problem . These are not copies . Somebody will get you what you want For fucks sake I was in a museum in Benin and the guy offered to sell me any of the exhibits I wanted. Iran ,great people but the regime is corrupt as fuck as well . Iraq Pakistan . etc you can get any documents you like as long as you can pay. I don't see what the density of Rwanda being more than the UK has to do with sending people there and the old chestnut about them all desperate to work. Any ideas about the average number of dependents brought per asylum seeker . That is one of the biggest problems. A lot of them call their whole family dependents and as I have said before the documentation is not difficult to get if you pay.
The end of the argument is that Britain cannot afford to bring a million people a year into the country and support them Christ there are no jobs for our own kids or hospital places ,dental appointments etc
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The question was about people who had been granted asylum in the UK, going on holiday to the country they claimed asylum from.

I completely agree that it's possible to get a fake birth certificate or degree in plenty of countries. That's nothing to do with asylum seekers going on holiday from the UK.
 
John John said:
Have you ever been to or lived in any of these places where these people are coming from? I have lived in quite a few of them in Africa and the Middle East I Nigeria you can buy any paper you want from any ministry you want . Buy a degree from University No problem. False birth certificate no problem . These are not copies . Somebody will get you what you want For fucks sake I was in a museum in Benin and the guy offered to sell me any of the exhibits I wanted. Iran ,great people but the regime is corrupt as fuck as well . Iraq Pakistan . etc you can get any documents you like as long as you can pay. I don't see what the density of Rwanda being more than the UK has to do with sending people there and the old chestnut about them all desperate to work. Any ideas about the average number of dependents brought per asylum seeker . That is one of the biggest problems. A lot of them call their whole family dependents and as I have said before the documentation is not difficult to get if you pay.
The end of the argument is that Britain cannot afford to bring a million people a year into the country and support them Christ there are no jobs for our own kids or hospital places ,dental appointments etc
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A million asylum seekers a year? They are going to need bigger boats to hit that target.
 
blueinsa said:
Instead of giving life savings to gangs and risking life and limb on a rubber boat, how about entering the UK via a legal port of entry?

Buy a plane ticket, fly in and apply but no, they don’t want to do that because they want to arrive with no ID or passports for very obvious reasons.
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They can’t do that though and if they could, we’d be dealing with absolutely shedloads more claims than we already are.
 
meltonblue said:
They can’t do that though and if they could, we’d be dealing with absolutely shedloads more claims than we already are.
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They could, they won’t because they know they would most likely be refused and turned around so instead they prefer to enter illegally in the hope of disappearing into the system.

Only way we deter the boats is by making it incredibly clear we will have a zero tolerance approach to those who try it.

Government knows this, knows that’s the policy we will eventually arrive at as well.
 
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