The Labour Government

bert38 said:
Which part?

You believe it solves every problem in this country and that the majority applaud cruel policies?
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Where have I ever said it solves every problem?

I haven’t is the answer but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue that deserves attention and one that should be dealt with.
 
blueinsa said:
Where have I ever said it solves every problem?

I haven’t is the answer but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue that deserves attention and one that should be dealt with.
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coming up with increasingly cruel policies isnt going to fix it-neither is banging on about it all the time-because people then assume its the main and only problem-fix that that and everything's dandy.

I didn't vote for this and neither I'd imagine the majority didn't either.

Trying to out reform reform will never ever work.
 
bert38 said:
coming up with increasingly cruel policies isnt going to fix it-neither is banging on about it all the time-because people then assume its the main and only problem-fix that that and everything's dandy.

I didn't vote for this and neither I'd imagine the majority didn't either.
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We have a different definition of what constitutes cruelty when it comes to border and national security.
 
bert38 said:
of course-but 20 years?!!

all Labour are doing by constantly talking about 'illegal' immigration is push the reform narrative.

we cannot forget that brexit then the Tories deliberate policy to build a back log of claimants so that they could blame them for their failures has led us here.

'illegal' migration is still a tiny percentage compared to legal migration-changing the right to claim citizenship from 5 to 20 years is appalling and wont help anything.

most people want labour to focus on what will actually improve people's lives not continually blaming the 'other' because if they keep doing that we might as well just get to the end game and hand over the country to farage (trump) and watch him and his mates strip the country bare.
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Illegal immigration improves lives?

I think govts have somewhat ignored or failed to address it, I'm not sure as a policy that has worked. It cannot be ignored unless we want more and more reform councillors and MPs. Its a shit show without an obvious answer.

If the politicians dont sort it we are gonna end up in the worst situation, genuine asylum seekers going elsewhere but charlatans still entering in large numbers.
 
WRicko said:
I don’t get what your saying about the renters rights bill it’s a policy to achieve there plans for renters / fairer society or whatever you want to call it. Not sure why you missed that end step which was the logical conclusion of what you were saying and instead mentioned ideology. Ideology could be part of your plan, government X wants a conservative / Marxist / socialists society and X why or z is part the plan to achieve it.

There was a blackhole they didn’t know about in the last budget which was the fault of the last lot that had to be filled. (So your wrong ) That has nothing to do with what commentators are guessing may be in the next budget so I still don’t follow your point and your clearly don’t know since did not understand what I was saying.

As for the comments about Reeves she has more in a budget that meeting the rules. She had the tax and spend element which are designed to meet those rules.

Then there is the wider ideology behind it which is clearly a fairer society and more investment in public and private sector and higher growth that could follow from that

By the way I am not saying this lot are perfect or even have a full plan I just don’t believe they have no plan because people say so they don’t even back it up
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I think we’re maybe saying the same thing, in that plans are made up of various coherent policies, those policies can be ideologically driven to an ideologically driven plan. The fundamental problem is can anyone say what the chancellors plan is? Other than to keep filling the black hole? Which isn’t a plan … it is to carry on as we are, hoping something changes.

BTW this was the breakdown of the last black hole when Labour took over government and made a few policy decisions.


IMG_4745.png

As you can see about half was from the tories and the other half from Labour. So you’re wrong.
 
metalblue said:
It very much depends on the process. If it’s all driven by a right to stay / work through a visa with an expiry date then it’s pretty straightforward - if you want to stay follow the application process if you don’t you’ll be going home.

Regardless of this being the most important issue or not it needs reform and Mahmood has got some ideas on how that can happen and quite frankly, at least on the surface, far better than anything that I’ve heard from anyone else.

It will become clearer tomorrow.
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It strikes me as a bit of a gimmick, to be honest.

We do of course need to wait for the full detail. But the twenty year element of the plan looks like something designed to create headlines, whereas in reality it will count for nothing if people have worked during their stay, contributed to the system and eventually apply for leave to remain.

Meanwhile the pull factors attracting economic migrants, which of course is the actual issue, don’t look to be materially altered. The only way to stop the small boats is to remove people from the UK immediately as they arrive, to a third country, and process their claims there and indeed settle them elsewhere if they are granted asylum.

I’m not particularly criticising Mahmood as what she’s proposing is likely the limit (or slightly beyond) what her party will accept and these proposals do at least look like they have an element of thought to them, which can’t be said about the one in one out nonsense.
 
Brewster's millions said:
It strikes me as a bit of a gimmick, to be honest.

We do of course need to wait for the full detail. But the twenty year element of the plan looks like something designed to create headlines, whereas in reality it will count for nothing if people have worked during their stay, contributed to the system and eventually apply for leave to remain.

Meanwhile the pull factors attracting economic migrants, which of course is the actual issue, don’t look to be materially altered. The only way to stop the small boats is to remove people from the UK immediately as they arrive, to a third country, and process their claims there and indeed settle them elsewhere if they are granted asylum.

I’m not particularly criticising Mahmood as what she’s proposing is likely the limit (or slightly beyond) what her party will accept and these proposals do at least look like they have an element of thought to them, which can’t be said about the one in one out nonsense.
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The left of the party won’t like it so it’s not a given this will get through.
 
hilts said:
Illegal immigration improves lives?

I think govts have somewhat ignored or failed to address it, I'm not sure as a policy that has worked. It cannot be ignored unless we want more and more reform councillors and MPs. Its a shit show without an obvious answer.

If the politicians dont sort it we are gonna end up in the worst situation, genuine asylum seekers going elsewhere but charlatans still entering in large numbers.
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It does improve lives.

My Deliveroo delivery times have been noticibly halved in recent months. Though why a doctor would choose to deliver Maccy D's for a living perplexes me. :D
 
Shouldn’t be pandering to “either ****” given that most won’t vote for them anyway.

Fortunately, it won’t get anywhere, just like with all the attempted draconian practises.
 
metalblue said:
I think we’re maybe saying the same thing, in that plans are made up of various coherent policies, those policies can be ideologically driven to an ideologically driven plan. The fundamental problem is can anyone say what the chancellors plan is? Other than to keep filling the black hole? Which isn’t a plan … it is to carry on as we are, hoping something changes.

BTW this was the breakdown of the last black hole when Labour took over government and made a few policy decisions.


View attachment 175018

As you can see about half was from the tories and the other half from Labour. So you’re wrong.
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There clearly is a plan to invest more improve services and fill the gap in finances. That might not be much of vision or ideology but it’s more than just fill the blackhole.

I don’t think that graphic tells us anything who produced it ? What policies led to the increase in spending attributed to those areas that were choices ? Was it only public sector pay increases ? Try running the country with them on strike ? What would that have cost ? Can they really be classed as a choice ?
 
hilts said:
Whether the politicians admit it or not the only way to curb numbers is to make the UK an unappealing destination.
I think anyone balanced who saw the recent investigation by the BBC into the black market shenanigans would admit there is a problem.
Until people accept there are genuine and fraudulent people entering the country rather than fighting for 'a side' the shit show in politics will continue. We know who is currently winning the battle though.
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Let’s have an unappealing country that sounds great.


Fraudulent people ?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Or decide to stay in the war torn hell hole of lawlessness and persecution that is France perhaps?
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So you wouldn’t take anyone ?

What’s France’s policy do they wait 20 years to allow people to settle ? What if they do and same for other countries does that mean anyone fleeing has to wait 20 years before they can marry have kids etc and how would this affect there ability to be good members of society ?
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Where did I put that?

Being Muslim and caring about Gaza can be separate. I guess there could be an issue with some of these MPs being very conservative and religous in their views
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You said being Muslim played a part in them being elected yet the only thing you can say about them is they study on a platform about Gaza. You’re now saying they are conservative and religious but haven’t backed it up either with anything about them their voters or policies. Was Jacob Reece Mogg elected because he is a catholic ? What about Jewish MPs ? Saying that would probably be called anti semitic
 
metalblue said:
Of course not!!

Once you’ve built a life for yourself here then make a proper application to stay (rather than it be granted upfront).

If you meet the threshold they’ll be no problem with you staying and nor should there be - we can debate if those thresholds are fair or not once we know the detail. If we do this via visa’s starting with a “right to temporary asylum and work” then asylum seekers could work straight away and that’s good for all concerned.
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So it won’t make a difference instead of people being granted a right to stay as asylum seeker they will just end up staying as workers or under family rules or as British Citizens. Unless of course they won’t be allowed to do that till after the 20 years in which case my point stands that it’s not fair and doesn’t allow anyone chance to build a life and that won’t be good for us our economy society etc
 
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