The Labour Government

[blueish swede]

In the parallel universe you seem to inhabit, then perhaps all of the above is true. The fact the country is in the state it's in, rather neatly demonstrates that we don't actually live in your parallel universe. We are not the Netherlands, or the Nordics and we will never be like them. I constantly hear you lot saying "why can't we be like e.g. Sweden or Finland or Norway". Well no shit Sherlock, because 1,000 years of history has made us not like the Swedes, Fins or Norwegians. That's the reality you lot don't seem to be able to suck up. We are intrinsically less socialist, less left wing, more like the US than we are like many in the EU.

Thanks for the advice, but I was only asking. The thing is, i've worked my arse off all my life doing some really shitty jobs, highly stressed. Not being funny but most people I think would not have been able to put up with it and would have quit citing "stress". Now I have got myself to a position where I can just about afford a relatively comfortable retirement. Not excessive, just enough. If returns on investments take a tumble, it will be squeaky bum. If not, I shoudl just about be OK. I have no "spare" money.

So funnily enough I am rather paranoid about some **** in No. 11 deciding well done, you've amassed a few bob so we will take it off you to pay for the lazy twats who DID quit their jobs citing stress.

I don't think it's a left-right thing. It's more about being willing to act in unpopular ways for the long term benefit of the country, which successive British Governments have been unwilling to do. And you can´t really blame them, look at the WFA palaver. Although not brilliantly managed, the reasoning was correct, and people who can afford to pay for themselves, should.

Also other countrie have "agreed" long term strategies that all parties abide by. In Sweden, for example, Government borrowing is restricted by praxis so the country has to live within it's means i.e. a chancellor can't spend more than they take in revenue. There are exceptions, large scale building projects, for example, that are payed off over 75-100 years. You can spend in the boom years, but not in a recession. It's understood by everyone.

The same with benefits, although nobody starves, a life on benefits isn't an option here, it is a subsistence level of aid. On the other hand, childbenefits, parental leave, disability alowance and care are at a much higher level.

Now I have got myself to a position where I can just about afford a relatively comfortable retirement...
As of 1st January Sweden will abolish the retirement age and instead each individual will get advice on when it is "financially sustainable" for them to retire. It's a huge change, but it's clear the current system will be unsustainable in the future, so something has to be done.

 

[metalblue]

So in order to get settled status early you need to have no debt. Does that include mortgage and student loans ?

Seems odd

Debt doesn’t necessarily mean your a burden on the state

That does seem weird. Where did you see that?

 

[Vic]

Corrected

Nowt to do with Trump. This is English racists with little or no belief in the message of Christianity.

 

[Vic]

Then we should stop having kids then and just import people over the age of 18, that’ll sort everything.

We are stopping having kids.

 

[blueparrot]

We are stopping having kids.

Been thinking about my immediate family my wife has 2 siblings and 2 for myself all with partners so 12 adults and between those 12 there are 5 children aged 18 -29 who so far have 0 children. Dont know what that proves but currently in 3 generations its a drop from 12 to 0

 

[Vic]

They’re up 4.7% not down.

Farmers Guardian two weeks ago:


In other, more sombre news, milk price cuts continue as First Milk, Freshways, Muller and Arla announce further reductions. Arla has confirmed its milk price will drop by 2.63ppl from November 1, while farmers supplying Muller who meet the conditions for Muller Advantage will receive a milk price of 40ppl from December 1, a reduction of 1.5ppl. Freshways announced a December cut of 2ppl, and First Milk confirmed its milk price for a standard manufacturing litre will reduce from December 1 by 6ppl.

 

[meltonblue]

It's cost at least a portion of the amount we are giving to the French and whatever the border force costs to bring them ashore. So there is a cost before they land. The UK born 18 year old costs may or may not have been met by the parent's tax contributions but the important point you make there is 'UK born' as a nation its a given that we support our own before work and after they retire which I am more than happy to do. I and the majority of the British public have no wish to fund illegal immigration.

The last polls I saw, although pretty level, showed the majority still thought that people seeking asylum via small boats should still have their claims processed.

 

[Vic]

I was alerted to this by the excellent BBC radio programme More or Less a couple of weeks ago, which had a piece suggesting that with a wide definition of "benefits" ("free" stuff - NHS Orange Juice! - child benefit, pensions) most UK citizens get more in benefits than they pay in taxes. (Only people on well higher than average income are net contributors to the system.)

This below from 2019, just when Brexit meant we would lose a lot of EU migrants. Feel free to offer alternative stats (or even alternative facts).
"Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found. And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero."

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals

'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

I was alerted to this by the excellent BBC radio programme More or Less a couple of weeks ago, which had a piece suggesting that with a wide definition of "benefits" ("free" stuff - NHS Orange Juice! - child benefit, pensions) most UK citizens get more in benefits than they pay in taxes. (Only people on well higher than average income are net contributors to the system.)

This below from 2019, just when Brexit meant we would lose a lot of EU migrants. Feel free to offer alternative stats (or even alternative facts).
"Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found. And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero."

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals

'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'

www.independent.co.uk

Interesting post. As legal migrants I'd expect the vast majority come to the UK to work, usually in higher earning brackets due to the immigration rules. They will probably also be fairly young, and childless. This is likely to impact in terms of their use of public services. The analysis also seems to assume they will stay in the UK forever. Unsure whether that's a reasonable assumption, although it may be.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Crazy how Labour, who haven't been great, are still absolutely miles better than anything else on offer.

Correct.

 

[hilts]

Maybe? I don't know. But what does that mean exactly? I mean if someone cannot support themselves or becomes ill, we don't just let them die by the roadside.

Thats just our own homeless we do that to, we aren't barbarians you know.

 

[hilts]

Then we should stop having kids then and just import people over the age of 18, that’ll sort everything.

Kids like pizzas, complicated fades, lines in their haircuts and vapes though so you're cutting off a big income stream for the newly arrived 25 Yr old male asylum seeker. Thank god we have the nuclear scientists and surgeons from your bog standard immigration to help pay for them.

Now we just need to build a new city in the Peak District for housing and we are ready to go.
10% social housing of course and maybe a dual carriageway connecting it to the airport. Might need a few more people to build that though. Last time I was on a plane there seemed to be lots of that green stuff near the Cotswolds. They may be up for a new housing estate, some roads, maybe a school, a hospikal, prison, gp surgery, local football team owned by Neville, a tip, a Starbucks, 12 barbers, mini market, takeouts.
Lots more Labour needed though, ive noticed wales is just valleys. We just need to build a housing estate with 10% social housing of course and maybe a dual carriageway connecting it to the M4. Might need a few more people to build that though. Last time I was on a plane there seemed to be lots of that green stuff near the highlands. They may be up for a new housing estate, some roads, maybe a school, a hospikal, prison, gp surgery, local football team owned by the female Neville, a tip, a Starbucks, 12 barbers, mini market, takeouts of the fried variety.
This will obviously take decades and go over budget and shit i forgot care homes and nuclear power stations. Well thats only...... Doh! now everyone has been selfish and gotten old.
Okay last time I was on a plane I noticed some green stuff on the Yorkshire Moo..........

 

[hilts]

Crazy how Labour, who haven't been great, are still absolutely miles better than anything else on offer.

Based on?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I was alerted to this by the excellent BBC radio programme More or Less a couple of weeks ago, which had a piece suggesting that with a wide definition of "benefits" ("free" stuff - NHS Orange Juice! - child benefit, pensions) most UK citizens get more in benefits than they pay in taxes. (Only people on well higher than average income are net contributors to the system.)

This below from 2019, just when Brexit meant we would lose a lot of EU migrants. Feel free to offer alternative stats (or even alternative facts).
"Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found. And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits - while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero."

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals

'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'

www.independent.co.uk

If I work for a company, and they pay me and everyone else a crap salary, and because of that, they make a huge profit and pay a shitload of tax, what counts as 'my contribution' to the treasury? Just my income tax minus the services I use, or my income tax plus the corporate tax I help generate? See, trying to take an individual and determine whether they are a 'net benefit' or a 'net loss' to the treasury doesn't really work. If you're doing a job, you're contributing. Even plenty of people not doing a job (e.g. carers, parents) are contributing.

 

[mackenzie]

If I work for a company, and they pay me and everyone else a crap salary, and because of that, they make a huge profit and pay a shitload of tax, what counts as 'my contribution' to the treasury? Just my income tax minus the services I use, or my income tax plus the corporate tax I help generate? See, trying to take an individual and determine whether they are a 'net benefit' or a 'net loss' to the treasury doesn't really work. If you're doing a job, you're contributing. Even plenty of people not doing a job (e.g. carers, parents) are contributing.

I think carers, in particular, deserve a bloody medal. And a pay rise!

 

[blueinsa]

We are stopping having kids.

It’s because we can’t afford them.

Poland has just given huge tax breaks to families.

Meanwhile, here, families will get hit the hardest.

It’s always a political choice Vic.

 

[blueinsa]

Based on?

In built coping mechanisms I think.

 

[blueinsa]

Wholesale energy prices down, energy cap up and another manifesto promise already in tatters.

More cheese gromit says Ed!

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It’s because we can’t afford them.

Poland has just given huge tax breaks to families.

Meanwhile, here, families will get hit the hardest.

It’s always a political choice Vic.

Possibly Lifting the two child tax credit cap ?

Free nursery places ?

Breakfast clubs?

Changes to requirements for school uniform ?


It is always a political choice ..... but you seem to think Labour haven't done anything.

 

[blueinsa]

Possibly Lifting the two child tax credit cap ?

Free nursery places ?

Breakfast clubs?

Changes to requirements for school uniform ?


It is always a political choice ..... but you seem to think Labour haven't done anything.

Low wages

UC ensuring work simply doesn’t pay for many so huge welfare bills

Cost of living crises

Inflation

Scandalous energy bills

We can play the political choice game all day long and it’s in every government, regardless of colour.

Labour are in charge now, nobody else.