The Labour Party

[Rascal]

All Labour had to do was have a leader less ambivalent about the EU and Remain would have won and we wouldn't be facing such shite now.

And there in a nutshell is the problem and possibly always has been.

The right of the Labour party are mostly Pro-EU, the MPs on the right were mostly Pro EU, Starmer pushed a Pro-EU stance on the party backed by the FBFE fruitloops.

I have said countless times on here now, you cannot be a Socialist and support the EU as it currently exists as it is a capitalist club designed around the free market. The Blairite liberal left are comfortable with that but the Socialist left are not comfortable with it at all as the chance of a Socialist state is unachievable whilst being a member of the EU.

Therefore the real winners out of all this mess are as per normal, the capitalist class. The capitalist class however are split between the extreme libertarians who want a capitalist free for all and a UK version of Singapore and the Social Democratic capitalists who see capitalism as a way of achieving equality. They are strange bedfellows in the same way that the anti EU left and the anti immigration right are strange bedfellows.

The Brexit issue which was supposedly an issue that split the Tories had always split the Labour party just as much because the fragile coalitions in both parties held opposite views for differing reasons.

I dont believe Labour becoming the party of remain would have won an election, if it had it would have been a pyrrhic victory as it would have excluded the left from the victory and the goal of Socialism would not have bee achieved and i couldnt have voted for a Labour party that held those views.

 

[Fame Monster]

By slightly left of centre you mean what exactly?

What would a slightly left of centre Labour party look like, what policies would it have?

Do you realise that the left of the party is probably more anti EU and supported brexit.

Probably someone with a shred of fiscal responsibility who wouldn't have already spent the furlough money on WASPI women for example. Even still, he was too closely attached to the Momentum types who were more bothered about launching a war on culture, history, and speech than improving the lot of working class voters.

The most telling fact about Corbyn is that he inherited a 15 point lead over the Tories among working class voters and lost all of it to an old Etonian who could recite the Illiad in Greek.

 

[mexico1970]

By slightly left of centre you mean what exactly?

What would a slightly left of centre Labour party look like, what policies would it have?

Do you realise that the left of the party is probably more anti EU and supported brexit.

The Labour party kept going on about a 2nd referendum and in the end actually backed it, Corbyn wasn't just a little bit left he was a lot left. This isn't my perception it's what they sold as an election pledge.

I'll go further than that and say that the reason why the Tories got in is because they finally backed Brexit and ensured a big majority because of it. My recollection of the events leading up to the last GE is that Labour and anyone on the left were calling for a 2nd referendum and the Tories went balls deep in accepting it.

People voted with the choices they had on the table, and there were two deciding factors, Brexit and the popularity of Corbyns politics and his cabinet.

Labour is finally backing a second referendum. Is it too little, too late? | Gaby Hinsliff

The unions have cornered Jeremy Corbyn into agreeing to a second Brexit vote. But, as ever, it’s not that simple, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff

www.theguardian.com

 

[Rascal]

Even still, he was too closely attached to the Momentum types who were more bothered about launching a war on culture, history, and speech than improving the lot of working class voters.

Where do you get this momentum nonsense from?

 

[Rascal]

The Labour party kept going on about a 2nd referendum and in the end actually backed it, Corbyn wasn't just a little bit left he was a lot left. This isn't my perception it's what they sold as an election pledge.

I'll go further than that and say that the reason why the Tories got in is because they finally backed Brexit and ensured a big majority because of it. My recollection of the events leading up to the last GE is that Labour and anyone on the left were calling for a 2nd referendum and the Tories went balls deep in accepting it.

People voted with the choices they had on the table, and there were two deciding factors, Brexit and the popularity of Corbyns politics and his cabinet.

Labour is finally backing a second referendum. Is it too little, too late? | Gaby Hinsliff

The unions have cornered Jeremy Corbyn into agreeing to a second Brexit vote. But, as ever, it’s not that simple, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff

www.theguardian.com

That is not true though, and the Guardian is a pro EU liberal newspaper. It is not a supporter of Socialism.

Only the soft left, AKA Starmer and the Blairites plus the FBFE fruitloops called for a 2nd ref. I am off the left and i am pro leave because i am a Socialist.

What do you mean by a lot left? I thought Corbyn was too right wing at times and he softened his approach to appeal to the centre. Which policies were far left in your opinion?

 

[Fame Monster]

Where do you get this momentum nonsense from?

Possibly the fact that their whole reason for being was to support Corbyn and he repaid the favour by parachuting some of their members into senior positions within the party, along with sympathising with and introducing many Momentum-supported policies.

 

[Rascal]

Possibly the fact that their whole reason for being was to support Corbyn and he repaid the favour by parachuting some of their members into senior positions within the party, along with sympathising with and introducing many Momentum-supported policies.

The nonsense about culture wars and stuff i meant. If momentum as you believe are of the hard left, then you are being contradictory. The hard left has no interest in culture wars, you are confusing the hard left with the liberal left. The liberal left is full of culture warriors. The far left is all about the working class over the capitalist, it is patriotic and it is proud of the UKs history. After all its the working class who have done the dying to create that history. You are confusing the metro liberal left with the Socialist left. Starmer is of the metro liberal left, Blair was. Momentum was a grass roots agency set up to campaign on behalf of socialist policies and to support Corbyn and Socialism. Socialism is not compatible with this cultural war stuff, because it is not about class.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Probably someone with a shred of fiscal responsibility who wouldn't have already spent the furlough money on WASPI women for example. Even still, he was too closely attached to the Momentum types who were more bothered about launching a war on culture, history, and speech than improving the lot of working class voters.

The most telling fact about Corbyn is that he inherited a 15 point lead over the Tories among working class voters and lost all of it to an old Etonian who could recite the Illiad in Greek.

Yep - and a voter base that was a coalition of working class life long labour supporters and the progressive thinking middle classes. He alienated both groups.

And still his legacy of stinking up the party persists.

Hes like a turd you cant flush.

 

[mexico1970]

That is not true though, and the Guardian is a pro EU liberal newspaper. It is not a supporter of Socialism.

Only the soft left, AKA Starmer and the Blairites plus the FBFE fruitloops called for a 2nd ref. I am off the left and i am pro leave because i am a Socialist.

What do you mean by a lot left? I thought Corbyn was too right wing at times and he softened his approach to appeal to the centre. Which policies were far left in your opinion?

You think Corbyn was too right wing? That's your view I suppose and I respect your right to that view, you have to agree that's not the definition most people use?

Every political party except the Tories wanted another referendum, and the Tories won the election by a landslide, take from that what you will.

 

[mexico1970]

The nonsense about culture wars and stuff i meant. If momentum as you believe are of the hard left, then you are being contradictory. The hard left has no interest in culture wars, you are confusing the hard left with the liberal left. The liberal left is full of culture warriors. The far left is all about the working class over the capitalist, it is patriotic and it is proud of the UKs history. After all its the working class who have done the dying to create that history. You are confusing the metro liberal left with the Socialist left. Starmer is of the metro liberal left, Blair was. Momentum was a grass roots agency set up to campaign on behalf of socialist policies and to support Corbyn and Socialism. Socialism is not compatible with this cultural war stuff, because it is not about class.

Honest question bud. Which politician today would you like to see head the Labour party who will deliver policies which suit your specific political viewpoint?