The Labour Party

The biggest dissapointment is Labour are trying to spin this shitshow where as ot was good for the country and them, but in reality it has opened them up to distain from its own members for pandering to lobbyist and in effect green lighting Israels continuation (Hamas are not going to surrender and starmer and the rest know it) while trying to appease the muslim vote.
This in turn leads to the right wing press, tories and other not rites on the right to accuse them of being pro islamist and/or cowtowing to the muslim community.


This is classic Starmer tbf, a man with no opinion who bends like a reed in the wind, and reminiscent of 2019 where he encouraged and blocked Labour from commiting to a lets make the best of brexit call in the election campaign and pushed for a inbetween both stances tactic, which confused the electorate and along with the anti corbyn movement gave us the last 4 years of ineptiude in government.


Stop trying to please every **** and have a fucking opinion Labour
 
So why all the pantomime if it was meaningless? If Labour felt so strongly about their amendment why didn't they use their opposition days to try to force the government position earlier rather than forwarding motions on stuff like ....... MPs severance pay?

It was clearly anything but meaningless.

Did you read my comment that you responded to there…? As I clearly said it was meaningless in terms of the conflict, it wasn’t domestically.
 
I get that, but there are large parts of society that aren't on the property ladder, and I'd guess that the majority of those also don't have a huge amount invested in a pension fund either, because after saving up for a deposit, paying for extortionate rent, utilities and transport, and possibly paying off a student loan that they were promised would lead to a high-paying job, they don't have a lot left to save for the future. And even their parents are now expected to use the one asset they could pass on to pay for their old-age care.

But equally, as fewer and fewer people are building a sizeable pension fund, the companies building the houses are less and less owned by the wider public, and more and more by a smaller number of ultra-rich investors. The idea of people being able to own their own homes is actually an anomaly in history. The number of houses has increased more than the population in the last ten years. The normal rules of supply and demand should say that prices should go down, and yet that hasn't happened, because there's a huge shift of wealth to the ultra rich, who use it to buy assets. House prices are artificially propped up by people who are buying them as an investment, and a correction is long overdue. But it won't happen, because effectively your young family is now competing with a hedge fund for property rather than other young families. And there's absolutely no reason to assume that this will correct itself as long as the flow of money keeps going from the poor to the ultra rich.

The main question for you would be, do you think house prices continuing to increase is a good thing? The average price is now 8.3 times the average annual salary. Do you think it would be a good thing if that went to 10 times, 15 times, 20 times? Or would it be better if it stayed the same or came down? Obviously a proper 2008-style crash would be a disaster for plenty of people with a mortgage, but a price reduction would involve at minimum a stagnation of house prices, to allow wages to increase faster that property, and everyone who owned a house would lose out on their 'investment.' You're not voting to 'protect' the housing market, you're voting to make it skyrocket in a way that you personally won't actually benefit from.

For most ordinary people, a house isn't really an investment, because you can only cash it in by selling it. It would be a bad thing for people who own more than one house, of course. It would also mean that people with a mortgage find that their house is only worth roughly the amount they paid for it, but then the same would apply to any house they wanted to move to, so again, for ordinary people who buy a house to live in, there's not a massive interest in how much the house is worth, because it's all relative. There's no point owning a flat that goes up from 150 grand to 200 grand if the house you wanted to sell it to buy goes from 200 grand to 275 grand in the same time.

But you get this all the time. Homeowners convinced to worry about the price of their house when in reality, it makes fuck all difference to someone who owns a single house. Who it does make a difference to is the huge investment funds buying up shitloads of property, and developers being able to charge a fortune. And yes, some of those developers might be owned by my pension fund, but call me old-fashioned, I'm not a huge fan of the idea that my pension fund gets record profits by pricing my own kids out of the housing market. Especially if it then leads to me having to gift them 10 or 20 grand towards a deposit anyway, which is what increasing numbers of middle class families are doing.
Within your post I don't really see what the solution is because ultimately houses have to be paid for regardless of who is building them. I'd personally argue for the Scandinavian system which is unlimited capitalism albeit heavily regulated. Poor regulation and subsequent recklessness in the financial sector is why houses are expensive.

Let's put it this way, the government says that we currently need 300,000 new houses per year. If a house costs £150k to physically build then that's £45bn per year so where does that come from? Does it come from more taxes on the rich or does it in reality mean more taxes on you and me?

Corbyn said that we'd have nationalised railways, water, gas, electric, broadband etc etc etc and now we could have nationalised houses. You would be talking here however of capital investment required in excess of £500bn so where will it come from? Where will it also come from when the financial and business sector has been destroyed?

Nobody is going to vote in their masses for this fantasy which given our economic predicament and debt is in itself highly reckless.
 
Within your post I don't really see what the solution is because ultimately houses have to be paid for regardless of who is building them. I'd personally argue for the Scandinavian system which is unlimited capitalism albeit heavily regulated. Poor regulation and subsequent recklessness in the financial sector is why houses are expensive.

Let's put it this way, the government says that we currently need 300,000 new houses per year. If a house costs £150k to physically build then that's £45bn per year so where does that come from? Does it come from more taxes on the rich or does it in reality mean more taxes on you and me?

Corbyn said that we'd have nationalised railways, water, gas, electric, broadband etc etc etc and now we could have nationalised houses. You would be talking here however of capital investment required in excess of £500bn so where will it come from? Where will it also come from when the financial and business sector has been destroyed?

Nobody is going to vote in their masses for this fantasy which given our economic predicament and debt is in itself highly reckless.
I think ultimately we have to go back to the tax regimes of the post-war era, where hugely wealthy people pay genuinely huge amounts of tax (in the US it was 90%). We currently live in a society where it's not just the ordinary man on the street that is massively in debt to the ultra rich, but also governments. The ordinary man pays taxes (far more as a percentage of their income than the ultra rich), and those taxes go to the ultra rich, because they are either the source of government borrowing, or the owners of the companies providing services as all sorts of public services are outsourced to the private sector. The ordinary man on the street is also going to spend almost everything they earn throughout their lifetime. The best thing you can do for economic growth is to redistribute money from the people who save it and use it to buy assets to people who spend it and use it to buy services that give people jobs.

Anyway, I reckon we've probably derailed the thread a bit here.
 


It’s like we got dumber over time….


All societies have poverty.
The idea that we can all have the same individual opinion and be heard is a nonsense.

This gibberish is grandstanding for the few people in society that treat politics like a hobby, read a few books on how to make the world better and then go on to try to tell the world they can do it better.

Nobody is dumb because they don't swallow the regurgitated bilge another mini Che espouses as their truth.
 

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