The Labour Party

[The perfect fumble]

Ahhh those heady days of Labour government and Tory opposition.

Lib Dems

 

[The perfect fumble]

Of the party.

And therefore of circa 1% of the electorate, the vast majority of whom regard you as twats.

You are the Tories' greatest gift.

The sum total of nothing.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think this post proves the truth of my previous posts - the had-left have control and everybody who has the temerity to question us can fuck off

I think you need an election asap before too many of us traditional Labour voters get wise to the level of contempt

Every post proves the truth of one of your previous posts. This place is one vast affirmation of your wit, wisdom and prescience.

There's an undiscovered tribe in the Amazon rain forest who worship you as a god.

 

[Chippy_boy]

No one is confused. Gove is just detailing the system as it is, how it works and how it confers an advantage to the already wealthy. The State subsidises Private Schools. Private schools are a business and should operate under business rules and not get state subsidies. Or are you now in favour of state subsidies for businesses? Thomas Cook employees and shareholders will be glad of your support.

I do not accept your definition of the term "subsidy".

Are you suggesting the state subsidizes our food, because food has no VAT on it? Or is it merely that it chooses not to tax our food?

As I say, I get that you want the rich to pay even more than they do for their kids private education. It's all we ever hear from the left "get the rich to pay more". Yawn.

 

[BobKowalski]

I do not accept your definition of the term "subsidy".

Are you suggesting the state subsidizes our food, because food has no VAT on it? Or is it merely that it chooses not to tax our food?

As I say, I get that you want the rich to pay even more than they do for their kids private education. It's all we ever hear from the left "get the rich to pay more". Yawn.

You might as well say ‘I do not accept your definition of reality’.

Private schools are a business not a charity and should be treated as such. Private schools should run pension schemes for their teachers and not pass that cost on to the State Teachers Pension scheme or do you think it’s right that ordinary taxpayers should subsidise pensions for teachers in the private sector?

Private school fees are VAT exempt. Not all food is VAT exempt. Let them eat cake unless it’s chocolate.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You might as well say ‘I do not accept your definition of reality’.

Private schools are a business not a charity and should be treated as such.

This is not "reality", this is your opinion as to how they should be treated. Please don't go inventing crap and lecturing me about your inventions being "reality".

Private schools should run pension schemes for their teachers and not pass that cost on to the State Teachers Pension scheme or do you think it’s right that ordinary taxpayers should subsidise pensions for teachers in the private sector?

You're just being ridiculous. Private school employees pay taxes just like you and me. Are you saying their tax and NI payments should not count? What do you suggest the state uses that money for, free drinks at the Labour party conference? Don't answer that, I guess you are. Tax the rich, tax the rich, tax the rich. Conveniently forgetting they hand roughly 50% of all their income over already. Tens or hundreds of thousands. Tax the rich, tax the rich.

 

[Rascal]

Yes it’s good that the law takes precedence over conference votes.

But I do think this issue highlights why the wider public are not supporting Labour in greater numbers. I’m sure most people would agree with a long term strategy of reducing the advantages of private education. I personally would have no problem with the removal of charitable status. It just seems that what when the current Labour Party grasps an issue like this they seem intent on taking it to the limits, far beyond where it would have public support.

Party conferences have a long tradition for voting for voting for daft, ill thought through motions which are then generally ignored by the leadership. But Labour are making such a big thing of them being a democratic party where policy is decided by the membership (except perhaps when the leader and his inner circle disagree) that you can never be sure that these decisions will be subject to a sanity test.

The problem is the Overton window is so far rightwards currently that to drag it back towards to the left you have to go to the extremes to test the acceptability of what you are offering.

An example would be a motion saying we want to tax Oujakapivins at 60% rather than 40% and then settle at 50%, because the 50% is acceptable, but by trying for the 60% you have dragged it away from the 40% to closer than you want.

This is the world of politics, the extremes rarely make good policy, but serve to highlight that something closer to that policy might well be a great idea.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The problem is the Overton window is so far rightwards currently that to drag it back towards to the left you have to go to the extremes to test the acceptability of what you are offering.

An example would be a motion saying we want to tax Oujakapivins at 60% rather than 40% and then settle at 50%, because the 50% is acceptable, but by trying for the 60% you have dragged it away from the 40% to closer than you want.

This is the world of politics, the extremes rarely make good policy, but serve to highlight that something closer to that policy might well be a great idea.

Yep.

Corbyn has on occasion taken an "extreme" position, a compromise is hammered out and his opponents walk away pleased with themselves, telling everyone what a victory they've secured! And Corbyn quietly gets the position he wanted all along.

 

[George Hannah]

McDonnell doing his Conference set piece just now, everything he accuses the extreme right wing of doing could equally be levelled at him and his extreme cabal running the Labour show.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yep.

Corbyn has on occasion taken an "extreme" position, a compromise is hammered out and his opponents walk away pleased with themselves, telling everyone what a victory they've secured! And Corbyn quietly gets the position he wanted all along.

The man's a genius as well as a saint, obviously.

 

[Rascal]

Yep.

Corbyn has on occasion taken an "extreme" position, a compromise is hammered out and his opponents walk away pleased with themselves, telling everyone what a victory they've secured! And Corbyn quietly gets the position he wanted all along.

Exactly, although it does give the usual suspects a chance to use their favourite M word, what is eventually decided is just plain Social Democratic policy

 

[The perfect fumble]

Here's McDonnell ....

McDonnell says article 50 should not be revoked without a referendum.

I warn those who would revoke Article 50 without a democratic mandate. Ask yourselves what message that sends to our people.

An old professor of mine Bernard Crick was once asked to define socialism in one sentence.

He said socialism is the achievement of equality through democracy.

We can’t say to people “Labour wants you to share in the running of your workplace, your community and your environment, but we don’t trust you to have the final say over Brexit.” Nothing would do more to undermine their faith in democracy in all its forms.

But no one in the Labour remain camp is asking for that, so in fighting a non existent threat he'll emerge as Mr Compromise against the "extremists" when revoking Article 50 is finally resisted, even though no one was advocating it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The man's a genius as well as a saint, obviously.

He's no genius and he's no saint, but he has dirt under his finger nails that knows more about political reality than you do.

 

[Rascal]

McDonnell doing his Conference set piece just now, everything he accuses the extreme right wing of doing could equally be levelled at him and his extreme cabal running the Labour show.

Oh! Georgie stop it.

You are a bright fella, don't make yourself like silly

 

[The perfect fumble]

McDonnell doing his Conference set piece just now, everything he accuses the extreme right wing of doing could equally be levelled at him and his extreme cabal running the Labour show.

Not enough kill the poor for your taste?

 

[Chippy_boy]

My wife informs me the great John McDonnell is now promising a maxium 32 hour working week, with no loss of pay. So a 25% increase on your hourly rate of pay for EVERYONE.

Yippeeeeee. The man's a genius I tell you.

If only he hadn't gone further and made it just the 1 hour a week and we could spend all our days down the Labour club drinking Strongbow.

 

[inbetween]

Refreshing to see a senior politician respecting the rule of law. The Mail was arguing for PM Johnson to ignore the rule of law so let’s hope that ‘Marxist Revolutionary’ McDonnell doesn’t read that piece as it may give him ideas.

Especially as Mcdonnell has a history of offering insurrection, calls for riots on the streets, illegal strikes, kangaroo parliaments etc etc etc.

He's even the man who decided the gavel in Parliament needed a good swing..

 

[inbetween]

My wife informs me the great John McDonnell is now promising a maxium 32 hour working week, with no loss of pay. So a 25% increase on your hourly rate of pay for EVERYONE.

Yippeeeeee. The man's a genius I tell you.

If only he hadn't gone further and made it just the 1 hour a week and we could spend all our days down the Labour club drinking Strongbow.

What do you mean 25% of our workforce is being made redundant? Down with the elites!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Len McClusky grinning like a Cheshire cat. There will be no need for the mass strikes at this rate, although we'll probably have them anyway, just for laughs.

Maybe he should call for a +50% pay rise for everyone eh Fumble, so we can settle on the +25% and everyone will be happy with that. Corbyn's probably plotting it now, for he is a genius.

 

[BobKowalski]

This is not "reality", this is your opinion as to how they should be treated. Please don't go inventing crap and lecturing me about your inventions being "reality".



You're just being ridiculous. Private school employees pay taxes just like you and me. Are you saying their tax and NI payments should not count? What do you suggest the state uses that money for, free drinks at the Labour party conference? Don't answer that, I guess you are. Tax the rich, tax the rich, tax the rich. Conveniently forgetting they hand roughly 50% of all their income over already. Tens or hundreds of thousands. Tax the rich, tax the rich.

Yet the sources I am quoting are Gove and Hammond. Both Tories last time I looked. Hammond wanted to abolish the schools tax exempt status to help fund free school dinners for all. We have already established that nourishment is literally food for the brain so what is the objection to feeding children to help concentration levels in class vs tax breaks for rich people? Seems a reasonable compromise. You can afford the fees and the tax raised helps all children and your kid still gets a private education. What’s the issue here?