The Labour Party

[OB1]

I'm not getting it, Bob, because I don't accept your view that teaching our kids should be treated just like any other business. It is not just like any other business.

Perhaps you'd advocate turning all the state schools into publicly listed companies, just like any other business? Perhaps we should outsource teaching in state schools to private companies? No?

You seem absolutely content with the idea that schools are different and should not be treated like businesses, when the argument suits you, but not if it doesn't.

Schools are different. Also, to have charitable status don't they have to be not-for-profit entities and don't they have to provide bursaries and scholarships to people who cannot afford to go there?

I'm not aware of lots of people getting fat off the earnings of private schools.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Thornberry cracking some good jokes.

Johnson getting a good kicking.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Schools are different. Also, to have charitable status don't they have to be not-for-profit entities and don't they have to provide bursaries and scholarships to people who cannot afford to go there?

I'm not aware of lots of people getting fat off the earnings of private schools.

Indeed.

But you see, that isn't REALLy what the objections are about, is it.

What is plain to see is that Labour *hate* seeing some people being better off and much more successful than "the workers". It sticks in their craw. So anything that can be done to drag people down a level is music to their ears. And being rich enough to have your kids privately educated? Well you're clearly loaded and fair game for any shite Labour want to throw at you. That's what it's all really about.

 

[BobKowalski]

I'm not getting it, Bob, because I don't accept your view that teaching our kids should be treated just like any other business. It is not just like any other business.

Perhaps you'd advocate turning all the state schools into publicly listed companies, just like any other business? Perhaps we should outsource teaching in state schools to private companies? No?

You seem absolutely content with the idea that schools are different and should not be treated like businesses, when the argument suits you, but not if it doesn't.

Whoa hold on there sunshine. I do not regard healthcare or education as anything other than a public service that should be available to all. I oppose creeping privatisation of the health service for this very reason whereas you was in favour.

Equally if you are going to run a private healthcare clinic or service I am not there to stop you. Knock yourself out. What I will not accept is someone running that private heath clinic for profit and also seeking exemption from the laws that govern any other private enterprise such as employee benefits or riding on the back of the Public Health Service.

The same goes for education. You want to set up a private school and charge parents £15k a year I am not expecting you to try and claim you are a charity, exempt yourself from VAT or dodge paying employee benefits.

And to be clear you do not go around claiming private education is somehow a ‘special case’ and it is not like any other business when you are the first to say that the Public Health Service should be run like any other business with customer satisfaction and efficiency drives yada, yada. I assume you recall your own ‘NHS’ thread?

Nope. No. Cake and eating it springs to mind.

 

[hilts]

Brilliant, love a Communist reference.

Imagine a state school system that put the first man on Mars, just like the Soviet system put the first man in space.

You miss the point though, you make state education as good if not better than Eton and then there would be need for public schools at all, because every kid regardless of background would be able to make the very best of their abilities, which would greatly improve this countries productivity problems as a well educated workforce is proven to help GDP growth.

Its simples.

Making state schools as good as or better than Eton is anything but simple I would say near impossible.

I always see the left side of the Labour Party as pamphlet politicians. On paper it looks fair and just but harsh reality kills it. The right of the Tory party basically don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

There is no common ground between you and say Chippy. If Labour can't get in next time with the shit that has been going on for the last 10 years I think they will need a rethink.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Indeed.

But you see, that isn't REALLy what the objections are about, is it.

What is plain to see is that Labour *hate* seeing some people being better off and much more successful than "the workers". It sticks in their craw. So anything that can be done to drag people down a level is music to their ears. And being rich enough to have your kids privately educated? Well you're clearly loaded and fair game for any shite Labour want to throw at you. That's what it's all really about.

Yeah....

 

[Chippy_boy]

And to be clear you do not go around claiming private education is somehow a ‘special case’

Yes, I do Bob. And you don't get to tell me what I can / cannot do. Nor do you get to decide on what are the definitions. To be fucking clear.

If you want accept that we should run state schools just like any other business, then I will gladly concede same for private schools. Until then, wind it in.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Making state schools as good as or better than Eton is anything but simple I would say near impossible.

I always see the left side of the Labour Party as pamphlet politicians. On paper it looks fair and just but harsh reality kills it. The right of the Tory party basically don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

There is no common ground between you and say Chippy. If Labour can't get in next time with the shit that has been going on for the last 10 years I think they will need a rethink.

I agree with much of this, but seriously why have we still got a 47% (45 +2) top tax rate, if lining their own back pockets is Tories' objective? Why not abolish higher rate taxation altogether?

What you mean is that Tories have a different emphasis, and prefer less state intervention and less state support. "Don't give a fuck" is emotive nonsense.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yeah....

Well at least you've admitted it.

 

[cibaman]

Its what all parties do mate, they test the water and try to move the Overton window in there favour. That is the whole point of Conference.

Yes, and I could see it working in the first couple of years of a five year parliament. But it’s just not sensible when labour will be writing its manifesto in a few weeks time.

If conference votes for a 60% tax rate and the manifesto waters that down to 40%, the potential Labour voters who were put off by the 60% rate are not going to be reassured. They’re going to think that Labour’s aspiration is for a 60% rate. If not this year then next. They’ll think the manifesto is a con, labour telling porkies. And the members who voted for 60% will also be pissed off because party policy is supposed to be driven by the membership and they’ve just been overruled.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yes, I do Bob. And you don't get to tell me what I can / cannot do. Nor do you get to decide on what are the definitions. To be fucking clear.

If you want accept that we should run state schools just like any other business, then I will gladly concede same for private schools. Until then, wind it in.

You want to run a private business then you abide by the rules that apply to private businesses. You do not get to claim that this particular ‘private business’ can receive state aid as if it was a ‘public service’ and then claim that the Public Health Service should be run on private business rules. This smacks of double standards. And to be clear my views on how private education should be treated are in line with Tory thinking as per Gove and Hammond rather than anything that is coming out of the Labour conference.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'm not sure labour have thought through the public school thing, and tbh think it's just a thinly veiled pop at the inbred Eton alumni facing them from the govt front bench. Even if they were all forced to be state schools overnight the price of property in the catchment areas where most public schools are sited would still ensure their exclusivity. We see this now with State schools in 'nice' areas.

 

[hilts]

I agree with much of this, but seriously why have we still got a 47% (45 +2) top tax rate, if lining their own back pockets is Tories' objective? Why not abolish higher rate taxation altogether?

What you mean is that Tories have a different emphasis, and prefer less state intervention and less state support. "Don't give a fuck" is emotive nonsense.

Disagree you have to understand that the Tories cannot help themselves if they are not in power. It's a lesson that Labour need to learn. Like in business a company will often pay what they can get away with. The Tories make themselves just about bearable that the middle classes in sufficient numbers will vote for them.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Well at least you've admitted it.

Be quiet...

Finchley and Golders Green Labour Party are speaking! They're my old constituency! I'm traveling back in time, 1980's, Depeche Mode, waistline, functioning bladder!

Heady days!

 

[Chippy_boy]

You want to run a private business then you abide by the rules that apply to private businesses. You do not get to claim that this particular ‘private business’ can receive state aid as if it was a ‘public service’ and then claim that the Public Health Service should be run on private business rules.

I don't mind which way around you want it mr "cake and eat it". If you want a privatised health service and education service (I know you do not) then you get lecture me on private schools having to play like any other business. Until then, you do not.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Disagree you have to understand that the Tories cannot help themselves if they are not in power. It's a lesson that Labour need to learn. Like in business a company will often pay what they can get away with. The Tories make themselves just about bearable that the middle classes in sufficient numbers will vote for them.

Agree about the being in power bit, but honestly mate, it would really help you IMO if you stopped looking at things through such cynical eyes.

I absolutely refuse to accept that anything other than a tiny, tiny (potentially nil) faction of MPs go into politics for anything other than a genuine desire to make Britain a better place. I even accept that McDonnell has his heart in the right place, no matter how completely and utterly misguided he may be.

Tory ministers can typically get £500k a year (or more) jobs on company boards. What on earth would they be doing farting about on an MP's pay, if personal gain was the objective. it really makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Brilliant, love a Communist reference.

Imagine a state school system that put the first man on Mars, just like the Soviet system put the first man in space.

You miss the point though, you make state education as good if not better than Eton and then there would be need for public schools at all, because every kid regardless of background would be able to make the very best of their abilities, which would greatly improve this countries productivity problems as a well educated workforce is proven to help GDP growth.

Its simples.

Think you've been spending far too much time in Nelia's bar supping Sagres with the other reds in there :-)

Not sure how much time you spend here but you may have noticed that it is one constant procession of strikes in most sectors and the schools are so understaffed so are the hospitals and I have to pay around 49 cents in the Euro for that privilege. We have no choice but to send our kids to the international school here as the teachers are on strike every other week. Different country I know but this has been driven by a socialist government propped up by the communist party. Seriously thinking of leaving if this continues as it is demoralising paying so much tax for shit services - shame as it's a beautiful country...

 

[Chippy_boy]

Think you've been spending far too much time in Nelia's bar supping Sagres with the other reds in there :-)

Not sure how much time you spend here but you may have noticed that it is one constant procession of strikes in most sectors and the schools are so understaffed so are the hospitals and I have to pay around 49 cents in the Euro for that privilege. We have no choice but to send our kids to the international school here as the teachers are on strike every other week. Different country I know but this has been driven by a socialist government propped up by the communist party. Seriously thinking of leaving if this continues as it is demoralising paying so much tax for shit services - shame as it's a beautiful country...

Rascal won't be interested in any of that mate. When socialism fails, it's always for some other reason - you know the rules.

 

[blueinsa]

Think you've been spending far too much time in Nelia's bar supping Sagres with the other reds in there :-)

Not sure how much time you spend here but you may have noticed that it is one constant procession of strikes in most sectors and the schools are so understaffed so are the hospitals and I have to pay around 49 cents in the Euro for that privilege. We have no choice but to send our kids to the international school here as the teachers are on strike every other week. Different country I know but this has been driven by a socialist government propped up by the communist party. Seriously thinking of leaving if this continues as it is demoralising paying so much tax for shit services - shame as it's a beautiful country...

Watched the Labour conference this morning and every time strike was mentioned it had everyone on their feet.

The should coin the phrase work to strike.

 

[hgblue]

Watched the Labour conference this morning and every time strike was mentioned it had everyone on their feet.

The should coin the phrase work to strike.

The fuckers are going to reject going for a Remain position, seems they’re not as stupid as I thought, the bastards ;)