The Maginot Line

[MadchesterCity]

Were you watching the same programme as me last night on Sky Geographical ref WWII ??

Nah mate, it was on a program about subterranean structures

 

[manclad]

The Schlieffen plan was pretty much a carbon copy of WW1 when the Germans came via Belgium . I visited Ypres a few years ago the scene of the worse of trench warfare ending in the carnage of Passchendale.My grandad got gassed there. It was great to see so many British school parties visiting the Menin Gate.

The Schlieffen Plan was formulated before WW1 and used to attack France by going through neutral Belgium and then turning south towards Paris.
Belgium wasn't neutral in WW2 and they expected/hoped to thwart any German offensive by means of a series of huge modern forts,the most famous being Eben-Emael.
Unfortunately these forts met the same fate as The Maginot Line,and were captured/put out of action by glider borne forces and paratrooper units, who used shaped charged explosives to easily destroy these key fixed fortifications.

 

[doots]

Fascinating thread this, I've learnt more today than a whole year of history lessons at school.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

The Matilda 1 was okay of as an Infantry Support Vehicle, but obviously if judging it on a Tank vs Tank basis or the main battle tank concept that came later it wasn't.

The British designers had a tendancy to design different tanks for different applications. So you got a range of them (cruisers for speed, infantry support tanks etc) pressed into service and/or adpated to what they weren't designed for. Plus they tended to like to emphasize the ability for crossing various terrains.
If you read the reports on the battles in the hilly or mountainous regions of North Africa etc, the British Tanks could do hill climbs etc that no German or American tank could get near.

I guess the Matilda 1 was more of a mobile pillbox than what we usually think of as a tank.

The same is true of the Panzer 1.

I know the Churchill had great hill climbing ability, and this was very useful when it was used as a platform for specialised roles such as the AVRE.

Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers - Wikipedia

 

[dickie davies]

My grandad visited the line and confirm it had seen action. Mind you he was in the Panzer division in to 1939 offensive.

The reason I visited that area of France is because of where my brother lives in Germany and we were holidaying there
My sis in law is German and when they were over here on a visit some stuck up woman was bragging how her dad was high up in the RAF
Freidel responded with a "my uncle was in the air force "
Woman asked "where was he deployed"
Freidel replied "he was in a bomber squadron of the Luftwaffe"

 

[oakiecokie]

Nah mate, it was on a program about subterranean structures

Ah what a coincidence as it showed the Germans invading that part and taking it over.

 

[yerwot?]

War is a damned, chancy thing, which is why you are better off avoiding it.

The UK had an extremely mechanised army in 1939 (contrary to popular opinion) whereas the Germans still relied heavily on horses (contrary to popular opinion.) However, the British tanks were hopeless and our generals were out-thought in tactical terms.

According to my Dad, our tanks were still pretty poor in 1944 and we had to deploy self-propelled guns to counter the German tanks. Later some Shermans were equipped with British guns and they were about the best kit we had. Luckily we (and the Yanks) had an endless supply of tanks, while the best German ones were in short supply.

It's easy to laugh at military mistakes, but history is full of them

I guess the Matilda 1 was more of a mobile pillbox than what we usually think of as a tank.

The same is true of the Panzer 1.

I know the Churchill had great hill climbing ability, and this was very useful when it was used as a platform for specialised roles such as the AVRE.

Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers - Wikipedia

The panzers pretty ruled the battlefield, all-out attacks overwhelming the opposition. The thicness and the shape of the fromtal armour made it impervious to defenders Rear and side armour was comparativey thin. It also had a very slow traverse. Not crucial when charging forward, and impervious to .303 rounds from allied fighters. Rocket-firing Typhoons were a different matter, often blowing the turret up into the air. Visibility or lack of, was a big hindrance to aircraft operations. Tank commanders knew a head-on attack was pointless, and using superior numbers to attack the flanks and disable the Panzer was the way to go. Costly but effective. The british 25pounder actually outgunned the 88mm, was highly portable and cost a fraction of a german tank, a very important factor at this stage, when measured in manhours. In certain situation tanks need infantry support, the american 5" field piece, coupled with high-explosive shells and a proximity fuse wiped out that support, trenches are useless when rounds explode above them.

 

[crooky]

The panzers pretty ruled the battlefield, all-out attacks overwhelming the opposition. The thicness and the shape of the fromtal armour made it impervious to defenders Rear and side armour was comparativey thin. It also had a very slow traverse. Not crucial when charging forward, and impervious to .303 rounds from allied fighters. Rocket-firing Typhoons were a different matter, often blowing the turret up into the air. Visibility or lack of, was a big hindrance to aircraft operations. Tank commanders knew a head-on attack was pointless, and using superior numbers to attack the flanks and disable the Panzer was the way to go. Costly but effective. The british 25pounder actually outgunned the 88mm, was highly portable and cost a fraction of a german tank, a very important factor at this stage, when measured in manhours. In certain situation tanks need infantry support, the american 5" field piece, coupled with high-explosive shells and a proximity fuse wiped out that support, trenches are useless when rounds explode above them.

I recently watched a really good video about the proximity fuzes. They are far more complicated to make than I had originally thought and seemingly a game changer in the war.

 

[JASR]

Eldest child is going to Bovington in a couple weeks for their Tiger day.

if you’ve never been to Bovington, and you are into tanks… you’ve missed out!

 

[discopop]

I always have a little chuckle at the German mid war tanks which looked like they were ready for some tiling because they had been covered in Zimmerit which was thought to stop magnetic mines although only the Germans actually used magnetic mines. A costly and time consuming process.