The NHS Appreciation Thread

[worsleyweb]

I spent yesterday at Liverpool university open day with one of my daughters who wants to be a nurse.

9k a year fees. 9k a year loan for accommodation and living. Times 3 would leave her about 60k in debt to earn a starting salary of 22k after 3 years training and 30k after 5 years. I will help her clear that but many others would face that.

An absolute disgrace in my opinion. If someone is training to do such a vocation they should not face a debt mountain when they are just kicking off in life and a not that attractive salary as a reward. No disrespect to bus drivers but they don’t get paid much different to nurses.

It is wrong that I was saying to my daughter I will help you do something aside from your job to help you make money / get on the property ladder for such a skilled profession. Left me upset to be honest. Proud of her commitment and passion for it though.

Well done to all the nurses!

 

[stonerblue]

Can you please tell me when it will be addressed ?
I'm on the point of total despair with what happens in my department with the same people literally taking the utter piss with sickness absence,year after year
Has HR and management given up with trigger levels these last few years ? They must have,its the only explanation why the same people who play the sickness game are not sacked.
Im 54 going on 55 and I cannot except what happens in my department much longer,do i quit or reluctantly carry on in a negative workplace or do i join the slackers and piss takers ? serious question.

You could apply that question to working in general. I'll be grafting today til half 3 and when i go for a well earned pint the pub will be full of all day boozing jobless dossers as it is every day.

 

[malg]

All hospitals trusts I have worked at or my friends have worked at bend the figures when it comes to meeting these sorts of targets. There will be bed managers finding ways to prevent patients from breaching on paper, when in reality they breached and will be there for hours to come.

I've little doubt the true figures would be immensely worse than what is actually fed back to those who look at these sorts of things were they actually reported properly. At least from my experience.

The issue with this is that the extent of the problems gets hidden, and the people from the trust whose job it is to monitor and meet these targets pat themselves on the back, the people setting the targets pat themselves on the back, and the people on the floor deal with the true nature of the problem and get no help because the falsified numbers don't look too bad.

I can guarantee you 100% the Trust I work in do not fudge those figures. A patient would never be in that ED for hours after someone said they'd moved to a ward. That said, I've been told of "shenanigans" at other sites, and not in GM.

 

[Southern]

Taking bloods point depends on your perspective. I believe they should be free because they can save money in the long term. Blood tests are also becoming more specific under an initiative called stratified medicine where the test will in time be able to predict what specific drug is suitable for each individual. I would make a case for everyone being tested on a regular basis at no cost as the NHS was designed to be free at the point at the use and to everyone's convenience because that makes sense. Do you really want people missing work for a blood test when we already have a very poor of problem.

As an aside, I attended a workshop recently that was looking into introducing statins to everyone as the benefits could outweigh the negatives. They would be free of course and it is thought the early intervention could possibly save the NHS millions. I don't know if that will be culturally acceptable because a lot of people will see it as state interference.

I thought some of your points were reasonable (the ones not quoted above)

I never said blood tests should not be done, but from a clinical perspective they are highly overvalued by patients/the public in general and apart from screening cholesterol and for diabetes/pre-diabetes there are not too many times when it is useful for healthy people to have blood tests as 99% the time they will be normal.

You say "NHS was designed to be free at the point at the use and to everyone's convenience because that makes sense" - well that was a long time ago when people didn't have blood tests, and people truly valued it. Of course, when something is free, people don't take any responsibility and it is open to abuse

I do worry that you might be quite gullible to believe that a controversial drug as statins could be so helpful to people most of whom don't need them. The drug companies will profit from it of course.

On a further note, much respect to @FantasyIreland because 10 years ago I spent a couple of weeks shadowing the London Ambulance Service and it made me appreciate what a valuable and difficult job they do. People go on all the time about doctors and nurses, but paramedics in my opinion should be paid a lot more because they do a job most people could not. And I did see a couple of times young people who should not be calling an ambulance abusing the system

 

[blue44]

You could apply that question to working in general. I'll be grafting today til half 3 and when i go for a well earned pint the pub will be full of all day boozing jobless dossers as it is every day.

One difference for where i work though is,you get paid your full salary for being sick,or having carers leave or domestic leave,so hence,its abused to the max with no comeuppance by a minority,the same as your " boozing jobless dossers " abuse the benefits system.
this is what drives me insane,I'm back in work tomorrow on sunday working in this heat and others are at home enjoying themselves on full pay for taking the piss.

 

[stonerblue]

One difference for where i work though is,you get paid your full salary for being sick,or having carers leave or domestic leave,so hence,its abused to the max with no comeuppance by a minority,the same as your " boozing jobless dossers " abuse the benefits system.
this is what drives me insane,I'm back in work tomorrow on sunday working in this heat and others are at home enjoying themselves on full pay for taking the piss.

Keep up the good work 44, we'd be fucked without you lot

 

[JASR]

I can guarantee you 100% the Trust I work in do not fudge those figures. A patient would never be in that ED for hours after someone said they'd moved to a ward. That said, I've been told of "shenanigans" at other sites, and not in GM.

There is a wide discrepancy in what constitutes the ‘start’ time of the ED wait.

Iirc it’s meant to be when you’re booked into the system.

But I know of trusts that:
Have a holding area, where you’re not booked into the system, until you leave the holding area.
Only ‘book in’ at the point of seeing triage.

Same sorts of things happen after ‘booking in’
, to end the ‘waiting’ time:
It could be when you’re moved into the medical unit.
Or your info is 1st reviewed by a doc.

There’s plenty of ways managers with KPI’s to meet, game the the system. Probably why the 4hr KPI has been dropped. It was good in that it set a target to improve the decreasing throughput, but there’s only so much efficiency that can be gained.

If a trusts ED beds are full, there is nothing they can do about the queue at the front door.
Generally an ED dept manages throughput through their dept fine, it’s when they need to pass on the dealt with patients, be it other depts or social care/family that it blocks up.

The ED dept is the only hospital dept that cant refuse a patient because they are ‘full’, ie if another dept has full beds, they can pass the patient onto ED.

The queue of ambulances with frustrated paramedics waiting at the front door, is probably because the ED is full, because it can’t get other dept/agencies/family to shift anyone out.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I thought some of your points were reasonable (the ones not quoted above)

I never said blood tests should not be done, but from a clinical perspective they are highly overvalued by patients/the public in general and apart from screening cholesterol and for diabetes/pre-diabetes there are not too many times when it is useful for healthy people to have blood tests as 99% the time they will be normal.

You say "NHS was designed to be free at the point at the use and to everyone's convenience because that makes sense" - well that was a long time ago when people didn't have blood tests, and people truly valued it. Of course, when something is free, people don't take any responsibility and it is open to abuse

I do worry that you might be quite gullible to believe that a controversial drug as statins could be so helpful to people most of whom don't need them. The drug companies will profit from it of course.

On a further note, much respect to @FantasyIreland because 10 years ago I spent a couple of weeks shadowing the London Ambulance Service and it made me appreciate what a valuable and difficult job they do. People go on all the time about doctors and nurses, but paramedics in my opinion should be paid a lot more because they do a job most people could not. And I did see a couple of times young people who should not be calling an ambulance abusing the system

Thank you pal,i appreciate that.

I loved my job at one stage but it became impossible because of a number of factors,most of which impact on your well being.

I'm much more content now in an industry where you are rewarded and appreciated properly.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I spent yesterday at Liverpool university open day with one of my daughters who wants to be a nurse.

9k a year fees. 9k a year loan for accommodation and living. Times 3 would leave her about 60k in debt to earn a starting salary of 22k after 3 years training and 30k after 5 years. I will help her clear that but many others would face that.

An absolute disgrace in my opinion. If someone is training to do such a vocation they should not face a debt mountain when they are just kicking off in life and a not that attractive salary as a reward. No disrespect to bus drivers but they don’t get paid much different to nurses.

It is wrong that I was saying to my daughter I will help you do something aside from your job to help you make money / get on the property ladder for such a skilled profession. Left me upset to be honest. Proud of her commitment and passion for it though.

Well done to all the nurses!

It is not a debt in the conventional sense
As a nurse she will never earn enough to pay it off and it will be written off in due course.She will not pay anything back until she earns £25,725 a year.
Then the repayment is 9% of everything over that figure.
So when she reaches the top of the scale she will pay 9% of £4275. Under £430 a year.
Because the debt is eventually written off after 30 odd years If you help her clear it you are throwing your money away.
Far better to help her with property.

 

[Rascal]

I do worry that you might be quite gullible to believe that a controversial drug as statins could be so helpful to people most of whom don't need them. The drug companies will profit from it of course.

I have not said I believe that to be the case, I attended a workshop that was looking into the proposal. I made no decision as I was not well enough educated on the matter. It has gone for further consideration after initial concerns were raised. I don't have the power to decide, I can influence, I will only influence if I am certain.

One of my main concerns were it would not be culturally acceptable to insist on such a regime for everybody because it is tantamount to the state being overbearing.

That is not to say in the future I may be convinced by the proposal, because I may if the evidence proves conclusive. If it does not I remain sceptical.