The performance last night...

[The Fat el Hombre]

Richards for Zab at right back
Onuoha for Toure at centre half
Barry for Viera in central midfield.

Barry was rested and you're splitting hairs with the other two. I think you've just highlighted there that Rammy was correct and there was indeed a lack of options

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's fair to say that team selection aside, we hardly looked like a fluid passing side, and the rigidity of our play prior to Bellamy coming on made us woefully predictable for Wigan...

It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation.

The man is a very very good manager, but he'll need to ask himself why in over three months we still haven't mastered the art of the forward pass...or why we still haven't mastered the art of playing in the first half the way we inevitably need to in the second to get something out of games...

The paucity of the midfield should actually have made it easier for him to choose his best formation and his best team, and play it consistently, rather than constantly chopping and changing personnel. Again, just my opinion....

In my eyes a football team is not a rigid maths equation with one solution. It's a much more than that, and Mancini has done lots of good, but he hasn't necessarily got the best out of a single player who was already at the club when he joined barring maybe Kompany. So there's much to admire and much to criticize because my gut tells me he will be here next season...

 

[hgblue]

I think it's fair to say that team selection aside, we hardly looked like a fluid passing side, and the rigidity of our play prior to Bellamy coming on made us woefully predictable for Wigan...

It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation.

The man is a very very good manager, but he'll need to ask himself why in over three months we still haven't mastered the art of the forward pass...or why we still haven't mastered the art of playing in the first half the way we inevitably need to in the second to get something out of games...

The paucity of the midfield should actually have made it easier for him to choose his best formation and his best team, and play it consistently, rather than constantly chopping and changing personnel. Again, just my opinion....

In my eyes a football team is not a rigid maths equation with one solution. It's a much more than that, and Mancini has done lots of good, but he hasn't necessarily got the best out of a single player who was already at the club when he joined barring maybe Kompany. So there's much to admire and much to criticize because my gut tells me he will be here next season...

Ireland was injured. Barry has looked knackered recently. He took a gamble with the water carrier and the water treader in midfield, and we won. When Ferguson does it, he's a genius.

 

[Braggster]

I'd say the majority of performances under Mancini have been poor overall.

We haven't dominated a game from start to finish for a long, long time.

We are missing some key players but last night's first half was the worst at home of the season.

We won 3-0 so job done. But things still haven't "clicked". Time's running out - but we're still in the running so there is hope. I'd feel much better with the back four we were settled on of Richards, Kompany, Lescott and Bridge.

We must get 6 points from the next two games, and start to play well, to have any chance of the top four.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the Mancini era. Even games which we've won comfortably, where his tactical influence has been considerable (e.g. Blackburn and Stoke at home in the league) were not fluent performances, IMO. They were about defensive solidity and the brilliance of individuals.

However, this is not a new thing. It has been true all season. I struggle to think of games this season where we played consistently well and looked really cohesive and outplayed the opposition all game. There were games where we looked good and scored exciting, brilliant goals, but few - if any - games where we looked in control. For example - sure, we put 4 past Arsenal, but on another day they could comfortably have put 4 past us.

Under Mancini, the balance has changed: we look less likely to concede, but also less likely to score. But there is still a lack of cohesion in the team, both on the ball and - mores so - when the other side have possession. We still don't control a game, and that is down to the players available, particularly in the midfield.

 

[m27]

I think it's fair to say that team selection aside, we hardly looked like a fluid passing side, and the rigidity of our play prior to Bellamy coming on made us woefully predictable for Wigan...

It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation.

The man is a very very good manager, but he'll need to ask himself why in over three months we still haven't mastered the art of the forward pass...or why we still haven't mastered the art of playing in the first half the way we inevitably need to in the second to get something out of games...

The paucity of the midfield should actually have made it easier for him to choose his best formation and his best team, and play it consistently, rather than constantly chopping and changing personnel. Again, just my opinion....

In my eyes a football team is not a rigid maths equation with one solution. It's a much more than that, and Mancini has done lots of good, but he hasn't necessarily got the best out of a single player who was already at the club when he joined barring maybe Kompany. So there's much to admire and much to criticize because my gut tells me he will be here next season...

Lescott's played his best football under Mancini Billy.

I'm open to criticism of Mancini and I though he got the selection and substitutions awfully wrong against Everton. Last night I would have played Barry instead of De Jong all things being equal but Barry will now be fresh for Saturday.

He is far from perfect but I see the chopping and changing as him just trying to stumble on a central midfield partnership which works in the absence of an obvious one. I would imagine he now realises AJ, Bellamy, Ade/RSC and Tevez have to start when fit, so that leaves us with the neverending problem in the middle to which there is no obvious solution.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I think it's fair to say that team selection aside, we hardly looked like a fluid passing side, and the rigidity of our play prior to Bellamy coming on made us woefully predictable for Wigan...

It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation.

The man is a very very good manager, but he'll need to ask himself why in over three months we still haven't mastered the art of the forward pass...or why we still haven't mastered the art of playing in the first half the way we inevitably need to in the second to get something out of games...

The paucity of the midfield should actually have made it easier for him to choose his best formation and his best team, and play it consistently, rather than constantly chopping and changing personnel. Again, just my opinion....

In my eyes a football team is not a rigid maths equation with one solution. It's a much more than that, and Mancini has done lots of good, but he hasn't necessarily got the best out of a single player who was already at the club when he joined barring maybe Kompany. So there's much to admire and much to criticize because my gut tells me he will be here next season...

You're the master at criticism without a single element of what you would have done instead.

You got asked the other day and evaded the question, again what would you have done differently?

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's fair to say that team selection aside, we hardly looked like a fluid passing side, and the rigidity of our play prior to Bellamy coming on made us woefully predictable for Wigan...

It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation.

The man is a very very good manager, but he'll need to ask himself why in over three months we still haven't mastered the art of the forward pass...or why we still haven't mastered the art of playing in the first half the way we inevitably need to in the second to get something out of games...

The paucity of the midfield should actually have made it easier for him to choose his best formation and his best team, and play it consistently, rather than constantly chopping and changing personnel. Again, just my opinion....

In my eyes a football team is not a rigid maths equation with one solution. It's a much more than that, and Mancini has done lots of good, but he hasn't necessarily got the best out of a single player who was already at the club when he joined barring maybe Kompany. So there's much to admire and much to criticize because my gut tells me he will be here next season...

Lescott's played his best football under Mancini Billy.

I'm open to criticism of Mancini and I though he got the selection and substitutions awfully wrong against Everton. Last night I would have played Barry instead of De Jong all things being equal but Barry will now be fresh for Saturday.

He is far from perfect but I see the chopping and changing as him just trying to stumble on a central midfield partnership which works in the absence of an obvious one. I would imagine he now realises AJ, Bellamy, Ade/RSC and Tevez have to start when fit, so that leaves us with the neverending problem in the middle to which there is no obvious solution.

Very true about Lescott, my mistake.

Can I ask you a question, have you seen any improvement in our attacking play between when Mancini took over and now?

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Very true about Lescott, my mistake.

Can I ask you a question, have you seen any improvement in our attacking play between when Mancini took over and now?

There hasn't been any improvement in the attacking play, but the defence has improved ten fold and that was the priority

End of the day the guys been here 3 months. To come in and sort what was a woeful defence out was very good. To ask him to sort both the defence and the attack in such a short space of time is asking too much

That said. How many goals have we got under Mancini? Plenty I'd geuss at

 

[m27]

Lescott's played his best football under Mancini Billy.

I'm open to criticism of Mancini and I though he got the selection and substitutions awfully wrong against Everton. Last night I would have played Barry instead of De Jong all things being equal but Barry will now be fresh for Saturday.

He is far from perfect but I see the chopping and changing as him just trying to stumble on a central midfield partnership which works in the absence of an obvious one. I would imagine he now realises AJ, Bellamy, Ade/RSC and Tevez have to start when fit, so that leaves us with the neverending problem in the middle to which there is no obvious solution.

Very true about Lescott, my mistake.

Can I ask you a question, have you seen any improvement in our attacking play between when Mancini took over and now?

Immediately (Wolves and Blackburn) yes. Since then, no I haven't.

You don't really want me to point to the improvements at the back though do you Billy?

It certainly seems he's sacrificed attacking flair for defensive stability (of sorts). If it gets us to 4th I honestly don't care.

 

[Anonymous]

You're the master at criticism without a single element of what you would have done instead.

You got asked the other day and evaded the question, again what would you have done differently?

This thread wasn't about team selection. If you read the OP again, and my subsequent contributions, it's generally about the WAY we play. Now you keep stating ad nauseum that it's because our midfield is shit. I don't believe that is solely the case, nor do I believe that that excuses certain deficiencies in our team play...pretty simple.

Calling me the master of criticism is a cheap shot that will only help polarize peoples opinions, but hey ho, you seem to make a habit of taking the things i post very personally...<br /><br />-- Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:30 pm --<br /><br />

Very true about Lescott, my mistake.

Can I ask you a question, have you seen any improvement in our attacking play between when Mancini took over and now?

Immediately (Wolves and Blackburn) yes. Since then, no I haven't.

You don't really want me to point to the improvements at the back though do you Billy?

It certainly seems he's sacrificed attacking flair for defensive stability (of sorts). If it gets us to 4th I honestly don't care.

I suppose if you'd all "parking the bus" improving our defending, then you're right...;- )

That's a joke btw, before anyone freaks out. I actually think he'd sorted our organizational problems out while back.

 

[ono]

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

First of all, an out and out anchorman generally would work better in a diamond formation. Unfortunately this leaves us short of width, and neither Zabba or Garrido are atheltic or good enough to consistently get up and down the flanks.

Last night we lined up pretty much as a 4-4-2, but because De Jong's job is so one sidedly defensive he drops a little deeper. Now this left Vieira with an awful lot of grass to cover and because of his age and legs, he didn't manage it. He was constantly been beaten to the loose ball. Now De Jong's job is to mop up, but when Vieira can't get close to their midfield it creates a big problem. Their midfield advance, and suddenly De Jong is exposed. He can deal with 1 player, but when he 2 or 3 advancing, there is little he can do.

So imo we should drop De Jong. Sounds harsh as he's been more impressive than Barry and Vieira, but it's not working, and in fact it won't work until De Jong has a couple of players in front of him who can control the ball and control the game.

 

[Wheelsy]

All this talk about battering teams... I remember early last season smacking Portsmouth to the tune of 6-0 and beating Sunderland, West Ham, and Arsenal 3-0. And we were still in the relegation zone by Christmas.

3 points is 3 points.

But I kind of think we're hanging on by the skin of our teeth. Just like in Star Wars its "Help me Carlos Tevez, you're my only hope..."

 

[Anonymous]

Very true about Lescott, my mistake.

Can I ask you a question, have you seen any improvement in our attacking play between when Mancini took over and now?

There hasn't been any improvement in the attacking play, but the defence has improved ten fold and that was the priority

End of the day the guys been here 3 months. To come in and sort what was a woeful defence out was very good. To ask him to sort both the defence and the attack in such a short space of time is asking too much

That said. How many goals have we got under Mancini? Plenty I'd geuss at

Sorry Hombre, missed this post. I tend to agree that he's improved our defensive play. You're saying it's too short a space of time to expect improvements going forward, I disagree. I think that having been in and around the players for over 3 months we should see signs of what he's striving for - and I don't see them. We play on the break just like we did under MH. There isn't a plan B....

Anyway, another question. Why is it that we consistently struggle to start a game with any tempo? Look at the Sunderland, Hull, Chelsea, Everton, even the Wigan match yesterday. First 45 minutes, no tempo, and we looked like we were going to struggle...

 

[Rammy Blue]

P14 W8 D3 L3 For 25 Against 12

Not bad imo.

 

[Anonymous]

P14 W8 D3 L3 For 25 Against 12

Not bad imo.

How is that relevant to this thread? Just curious...

 

[Bluesandtwos86]

...was very very reminiscent of how we played at times under Mark Hughes...lots of huge gaps between midfield and the back 4, looking very very vulnerable on the break, needing the magic of one of our stars to crack a team ...

Just an observation...I'm sure i'll get slaughtered for it...but hey ho.

The more things change the more they stay the same...

until we get a midfield that can dictate and dominate a game we will always look disjointed.

we have players who can dig us out of an hole, but the midfield is average at best.

We seemed to be overrun in the middle in the first half but we were still playing with SWP and Johnno with their heels on the touchline. Surely they have the stamina to touck in and help condense the midfield when we don't have the ball but get back out wide when we gain posession. Viera is honestly the worst player i have seen wear the shirt in a very long time.

 

[Neil McNab]

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

First of all, an out and out anchorman generally would work better in a diamond formation. Unfortunately this leaves us short of width, and neither Zabba or Garrido are atheltic or good enough to consistently get up and down the flanks.

Last night we lined up pretty much as a 4-4-2, but because De Jong's job is so one sidedly defensive he drops a little deeper. Now this left Vieira with an awful lot of grass to cover and because of his age and legs, he didn't manage it. He was constantly been beaten to the loose ball. Now De Jong's job is to mop up, but when Vieira can't get close to their midfield it creates a big problem. Their midfield advance, and suddenly De Jong is exposed. He can deal with 1 player, but when he 2 or 3 advancing, there is little he can do.

So imo we should drop De Jong. Sounds harsh as he's been more impressive than Barry and Vieira, but it's not working, and in fact it won't work until De Jong has a couple of players in front of him who can control the ball and control the game.

An out and out anchor man is called a defender, De Jong has never impressed me!

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

...was very very reminiscent of how we played at times under Mark Hughes...lots of huge gaps between midfield and the back 4, looking very very vulnerable on the break, needing the magic of one of our stars to crack a team ...

Just an observation...I'm sure i'll get slaughtered for it...but hey ho.

The more things change the more they stay the same...

Pretty much how I saw it Billy.

 

[Donkey Boy]

until we get a midfield that can dictate and dominate a game we will always look disjointed.

we have players who can dig us out of an hole, but the midfield is average at best.

We seemed to be overrun in the middle in the first half but we were still playing with SWP and Johnno with their heels on the touchline. Surely they have the stamina to touck in and help condense the midfield when we don't have the ball but get back out wide when we gain posession. Viera is honestly the worst player i have seen wear the shirt in a very long time.

jesus pal, how long have you been watching us??? Vieira is the worst player you've seen in a long time, are you serious, i'm 24 and I've seen some real dross.

If your telling me he's worse than Ben Haim, Kelvin Etuhu, Benjani, Fernandes or Vassell (all featured within the last 2 seasons) then your seriously deluded. We have been wank all my life, for the first time in my 24 years we are on the verge of doing something, and still people arent happy, we are 7 games away from champions league football and still you find things to nit pick on.

People get a grip, all these jonny come latelys do my tits in, get behind the team and stop moaning.

 

[Rammy Blue]

P14 W8 D3 L3 For 25 Against 12

Not bad imo.

How is that relevant to this thread? Just curious...

Billy, Billy, Billy, come on now, I am not some stupid ignoramous that you can waffle away to and twist things round to suit.

I really can't be arsed going back over your posts to quote all the "veiled" pops at Bob, I hope you really don't expect me to?

However because I'm bored I've selected a few of your highlights from this thread alone.....

"But I'd like to see us go into games with the correct team selection, motivation, and tactics,"

"As you say performances haven't really improved since Mancini took over"

"My biggest disappointment is that we've established very little consistency or fluidity to our play since Bobby came in"

"It continues to amaze me how poor performances are solely down to how bad our players are, or a lack of options, whilst even the faintest of criticism sent Mancini's way leads to deep sighs and the puffed out cheeks of exasperation."

Therefore, your honour, I see that pointing out our results under Bob is wholly relevant as he can only pick a side from what he was left, you don't like him and that is your prerogative but please save me from the "how is this relevant" nonsense.

You don't offer a single shred of reasoning as to what else Bob could do, of course as I have already admitted he is by no means faultless as he picked it wrong against Everton - I just don't see what exactly he can do other than try to get us 4th by any means possible.