The Post General Election Thread

[The perfect fumble]

I must say fumble, ever since I requested a source, it's rare that you don't post a link.

Well done.

https://twitter.com/50shadesoftory/status/598918422802669569

50 Shades of Tory

"Will you be fucking me in the bedroom?" she breathed. "No, I'll be fucking you because of it," said IDS, handing her a bedroom tax demand.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm proving the point that in the sector I work in, a public sector pay rise would not result in a pay rise for me.

Read through mine and PB's exchange properly , I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion.

You don't get it do you? No amount of public spending policy can directly impact the financial relationship between you personally and your private sector employer. If they want to increase profits by cutting costs then there nothing anyone can do to change that.

But, on an aggregate level, more money in public sector pockets means more money in the economy in general and more being spent in shops and on services.

Without appearing not fully understand this one but where's this money to give extra to the public sector come from.We have a massive balance of trade deficit so its not from abroad and the public finances a'int to hot we're told only other why i can see is to just print unearned money.

Balance of trade deficit refers to the difference between imports and exports so I assume you mean budget deficit, which is the difference between what revenue the government brings in from tax and other sources, and publci expenditure.

The answer is that we have to borrow it. That may seem counter-intuitive but here's an analogy. A guy works and has a mortgage of £100k and costs him £500 per month. He earns £2000 a month so his mortgage is about 4 times his income. His hours get cut and now he's only earning £1,500 a month. His mortgage is now about 5.5 times his income and he earns less money to pay it out of.

However he borrows some more money (perhaps using his house as security) to set up a business, which increases his debt. His mortgage increases to £120k and he's now paying £600 a month, which is s struggle initially. But that money he's invested generates revenue, which he uses to pay back what he's borrowed and also increase his own income, which now goes up to £3,000 per month. So his mortgage is now higher at £120k but it's only about 3.5 times his income. (He could also use the extra £1,000 a month to pay off his mortgage, thereby decreasing his debt over time).

The moral of this analogy, which can be applied to the economy at large) is that debt is relative to income. A large mortgage is not as risky to someone with a higher income as it is to someone with a lower income. Also sometimes going into more debt can pay off, if you spend the money on the right things.

 

[i kne albert davy]

You don't get it do you? No amount of public spending policy can directly impact the financial relationship between you personally and your private sector employer. If they want to increase profits by cutting costs then there nothing anyone can do to change that.

But, on an aggregate level, more money in public sector pockets means more money in the economy in general and more being spent in shops and on services.

Without appearing not fully understand this one but where's this money to give extra to the public sector come from.We have a massive balance of trade deficit so its not from abroad and the public finances a'int to hot we're told only other why i can see is to just print unearned money.

Balance of trade deficit refers to the difference between imports and exports so I assume you mean budget deficit, which is the difference between what revenue the government brings in from tax and other sources, and publci expenditure.

The answer is that we have to borrow it. That may seem counter-intuitive but here's an analogy. A guy works and has a mortgage of £100k and costs him £500 per month. He earns £2000 a month so his mortgage is about 4 times his income. His hours get cut and now he's only earning £1,500 a month. His mortgage is now about 5.5 times his income and he earns less money to pay it out of.

However he borrows some more money (perhaps using his house as security) to set up a business, which increases his debt. His mortgage increases to £120k and he's now paying £600k a month, which is s struggle initially. But that money he's invested generates revenue, which he uses to pay back what he's borrowed and also increase his own income, which now goes up to £3,000 per month. So his mortgage is now higher at £120k but it's only about 3.5 times his income.

(He could also use the extra £1,000 a month to pay off his mortgage, thereby decreasing his debt over time).

No mate it was the balance of trade in the first instance, if you're classing the country as a business then if you produce more than you consume there's then a profit which can be used to increase payments for public sector works and workers. But as out trade figures are the worst they have ever been that avenue of revenues ruled out,so that the leaves the public finances the difference between what the Government takes in and what it spends they aren't healthy either so you're right we need to borrow to pay out more which in your description of it sounds fine,only problem being if he doesn't increase is income by borrowing more and not earning his money he could end up right in the shit.

 

[whp.blue]

Socialists still in bed whilst the go getters of the world are up and ready for another day of enterprise, even though its a Saturday! Gorgeous morning, the smell of sweet blossom wafting,birds singing and now lets get this GREAT country going!

Must be because the intelligentra (if that is even a word) need more sleep I was in my office just before six and you are right it is a glorious morning.
Not a good day for the socialist when they eventually get up, just heard about the Tories July Budget where the newly re-elected Tory Chancellor is going to set out his vision for the next few years.

I am sure now he has no Lib dems to temper his right wing tendencies the lefties will be expecting him to tell the unemployed if they are hungry to eat their own babies etc. etc. and they will close the NHS and throw the poor onto the streets.

I personally am looking forward to continuing the realistic approach, leaning slightly towards austerity, with further measures aimed at all working people keeping more of what they earn and helping Businesses grow, a reduction in the Labour introduced Red Tape so all Businesses large and small can drive the Country towards a more productive five years with a higher levels of Employment which will benefit everyone.

I finished working at around 1am this morning and was already back working at 7am and have been on that schedule for several weeks.

Must be nice to experience a glorious morning. I'm too busy working my arse off to notice.

here's me thinking you were a Liberal when in reality you are a money grabbing capitalist all along!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Must be because the intelligentra (if that is even a word) need more sleep I was in my office just before six and you are right it is a glorious morning.
Not a good day for the socialist when they eventually get up, just heard about the Tories July Budget where the newly re-elected Tory Chancellor is going to set out his vision for the next few years.

I am sure now he has no Lib dems to temper his right wing tendencies the lefties will be expecting him to tell the unemployed if they are hungry to eat their own babies etc. etc. and they will close the NHS and throw the poor onto the streets.

I personally am looking forward to continuing the realistic approach, leaning slightly towards austerity, with further measures aimed at all working people keeping more of what they earn and helping Businesses grow, a reduction in the Labour introduced Red Tape so all Businesses large and small can drive the Country towards a more productive five years with a higher levels of Employment which will benefit everyone.

I finished working at around 1am this morning and was already back working at 7am and have been on that schedule for several weeks.

Must be nice to experience a glorious morning. I'm too busy working my arse off to notice.

here's me thinking you were a Liberal when in reality you are a money grabbing capitalist all along!

He grabs money liberally!

 

[whp.blue]

Socialists still in bed whilst the go getters of the world are up and ready for another day of enterprise, even though its a Saturday! Gorgeous morning, the smell of sweet blossom wafting,birds singing and now lets get this GREAT country going!

I've been up an hour and a half and am on my way to work in a minute. I bet i pay more in tax today than you.

you need to change your accountant mate if you are paying so much tax

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Without appearing not fully understand this one but where's this money to give extra to the public sector come from.We have a massive balance of trade deficit so its not from abroad and the public finances a'int to hot we're told only other why i can see is to just print unearned money.

Balance of trade deficit refers to the difference between imports and exports so I assume you mean budget deficit, which is the difference between what revenue the government brings in from tax and other sources, and publci expenditure.

The answer is that we have to borrow it. That may seem counter-intuitive but here's an analogy. A guy works and has a mortgage of £100k and costs him £500 per month. He earns £2000 a month so his mortgage is about 4 times his income. His hours get cut and now he's only earning £1,500 a month. His mortgage is now about 5.5 times his income and he earns less money to pay it out of.

However he borrows some more money (perhaps using his house as security) to set up a business, which increases his debt. His mortgage increases to £120k and he's now paying £600k a month, which is s struggle initially. But that money he's invested generates revenue, which he uses to pay back what he's borrowed and also increase his own income, which now goes up to £3,000 per month. So his mortgage is now higher at £120k but it's only about 3.5 times his income.

(He could also use the extra £1,000 a month to pay off his mortgage, thereby decreasing his debt over time).

No mate it was the balance of trade in the first instance, if you're classing the country as a business then if you produce more than you consume there's then a profit which can be used to increase payments for public sector works and workers. But as out trade figures are the worst they have ever been that avenue of revenues ruled out,so that the leaves the public finances the difference between what the Government takes in and what it spends they aren't healthy either so you're right we need to borrow to pay out more which in your description of it sounds fine,only problem being if he doesn't increase is income by borrowing more and not earning his money he could end up right in the shit.

Balance of trade depends on a number of factors. Our deficit is generally because we don't manufacture enough and therefore have to import of lot of what we consume. It also depends on the economic situation, with growing economies generally importing more than they produce being seen as acceptable, whereas that's less so in a recession. The strength or weakness of the local or international currencies can also impact it. If the Euro is weak, as it has been, it costs more Euros to buy a pound's worth of UK goods therefore exports are impacted. But it costs us less to buy goods priced in €'s so imports tend to go up.

But the fact we've got a negative balance also tends to support the view that productivity is lower than it should be. If we're producing more with the same resources then we would expect to import less. Plus our recover is service led and you can't really import services like you import goods.

 

[kas_tippler]

Socialists still in bed whilst the go getters of the world are up and ready for another day of enterprise, even though its a Saturday! Gorgeous morning, the smell of sweet blossom wafting,birds singing and now lets get this GREAT country going!

I've been up an hour and a half and am on my way to work in a minute. I bet i pay more in tax today than you.

you need to change your accountant mate if you are paying so much tax

My accountant charges £75 January and July for my tax returns, fantastic VFM ;0)

 

[SWP's back]

I must say fumble, ever since I requested a source, it's rare that you don't post a link.

Well done.

https://twitter.com/50shadesoftory/status/598918422802669569

50 Shades of Tory

"Will you be fucking me in the bedroom?" she breathed. "No, I'll be fucking you because of it," said IDS, handing her a bedroom tax demand.

Thought we all agreed it wasn't a tax?

 

[inbetween]

France were in a similar position to us when the coalition came into power, only they voted in a socialist government. Since then, the coalition has created more jobs in Yorkshire alone than France has created and our unemployment rate is half of theirs. In their most recent elections, they've replaced that socialist government with a right wing alternative. So why would they have done that if the socialist approach is better and is at least as adept at improving the economy as the right wing method of narrowing the public sector?

Dearie me....been reading the Mail have you?

Low pay and zero-hours contracts rise dramatically, figures show

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/13/zero-hours-contracts-low-pay-figures-rise

"New figures have revealed the dramatic spread of low-paid, insecure and casual work across the British economy since the financial crash of 2008."

......................................................

Why can’t Britain create decent jobs?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/14/why-cant-britain-create-decent-jobs

......................................................

It’s time to give Britain a pay rise and improve our low-wage economy

http://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2015/02/give-britain-pay-rise

.........................................................

Low pay is one of the key labour market challenges facing the country. One in five in the UK earn below the low pay threshold, much higher than our international competitors

http://www.theworkfoundation.com/Research/Socio-Economic/Labour-Market-Disadvantage/Low-pay-UK

........................................................

UK economy shows shift to low-skilled jobs, research finds

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6a8544ae-9d9e-11e4-8ea3-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3aIVwp3bS

The key thing is all those studies spout the same old rubbish, of course the country deserves a pay rise. I worked hard this week, I deserve a pay rise! Of course in an ideal world we would all be on footballers wages and England winning the world cup. The simple fact is fiscal responsibility is paramount for any business and many businesses right now are struggling. Cuts or no cuts, a strong private sector is what makes this country and we cannot ignore that fact, businesses should be encouraged wherever possible to make as much money as possible so that the profits are passed down to those who earnt it.

As usual with these type of studies and arguments from the left, it is an attempt to reinforce the us versus them which really only applies to the biggest companies who of course and rightly do everything for their shareholders. Then again there are hundreds of thousands of small businesses in this country who are struggling and actually in some cases almost exist just to sustain their workforce. Attacking these businesses is wrong and completely dismissive of who is really creating the jobs in this country.

Take your local pub, they might employ 3-5 people on the minimum wage. The minimum wage suggests it is a job no-one needs further skills for and this is right. Increasing the minimum wage by almost 30%, what do you think these pubs will do if their staff costs (the greatest cost) rises by 30%. Of course all they will do is say sorry but we will make do with 3 people instead of 5. This effect would trickle across the country and since we have also banned zero hour contracts too, literally NO-ONE will be able to find unskilled to semi-skilled work. You will see businesses stuck in the mud with spiralling staff costs due to legislation and instead of having high-paying jobs we will have zero jobs, this then inevitably increases the countries welfare costs.

This is why Labour were treated so badly in the business world and it is because Labour treated every single business in this country as a tax-evading right wing, city boy type lunatic. The vast majority of businesses in this country support people from a variety of backgrounds so that they are able to sustain a living and any government has to be pro-business as well as pro-people.

High wages can only be sustained by businesses making as much money as possible and fortunately we have a government now that will at least be as pro-business as possible.